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  1. #31
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    I agree with you, harsh and unobstructed criticism is of paramount importance.
    Even if it's just an opinion (what the hell, of course it's gonna be an opinion, most things we say are opinions).
    Even if the artist gets offended because his ego can't handle it (which is very, very often the case).

    In the end, harsh criticism helps everyone in the long run.

    Unfortunately such criticism is rare in fora like here, where people are eponymous and interact with each other daily, and the social norms of friendly behaviour take over honest critique.
    But it is what it is.

    Anyway, what I totally disagree with is removing (=censoring) a photo, against the photographer's will, because someone "got offended".
    Getting offended is a personal matter than one should resolve himself, facing his inner demons and insecurities.
    Getting offended is a ridiculous reason to censor others.
    I can't force the Muslim girl walking next to me to take off her burqa because I "get offended".
    I can't stop the Christian lady in the tube murmuring a chant because I'm an atheist and "get offended".
    I can't force the gay couple next door from kissing in front of me, because I'm heterosexual and "get offended".
    Why should I be able to force someone to remove their artwork because I "get offended"?

    "Getting offended" is a buzzword to enable people to essentially censor what they don't like and limit the freedoms of others.
    This is a two way street. Why are you offended when a privately created web site has its own editorial requirements for posting? Don't the owners of this site have the freedom to decide what they want to do with their site? Or do you want them to give up their rights and freedom and to comply with your viewpoints? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If you’re offended by their rights, then you don’t have to be here and can start your own site.

    Also, on a friendly note, this is supposed to be a forum where we should respect one another. We should limit our verbiage, photos, etc. so not to offend one another, just out of respect for each other. If you were visiting your friend’s parent’s home, wouldn’t you stop the usual cursing you might do if they weren’t there? It’s the same thing.

    As a suggestion to the owners of this site, maybe they can create a warning and then require an extra step to see nude photos, like Google and Photo.net. Then we can discuss issues and see photos that can be blocked from children and other who wish not to see them.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    Yes, it was done artfully and quite so. You had to see the image to see how and why.... Nudity itself is nudity just as landscape itself is landscape. As far as I'm concerned, it's what an artist do with it that makes it an art. (and let's not start "what's an art" discussion!) It was an magnificent work and I don't even like nudes.

    I was going to add that I could see it being done artfully by a rare artist. But such artists are so rare I didn't bother to add that qualification. Of course the image that comes to mind having not seen the image in question is a rather banal image done by one of many millions of men posting banal nude images of women.
    Nice work. You have a very talented computer.

  3. #33
    eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gandolfi View Post
    Don't understand that at all... If nudes aren't nessecary in Photography, then faces are not either - or landscapes - or houses or.... Nothing is nessecary - they are all options..

    Nudes is a choise - a challenge - a daunting one, as there's SO much crap out there and because it has been done a few times over the years....
    Well put, Emil. Another reason I shoot nudes (and other subjects) is because each genre I do helps expand the way I see, when shooting something else. While it may be subliminal, the nudes I've done have made me more prone to see the sensual shapes in a landscape, and the landscapes I've shot have helped me see the "geography" of the human form. It's all connected....

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie View Post
    Well put, Emil. Another reason I shoot nudes (and other subjects) is because each genre I do helps expand the way I see, when shooting something else. While it may be subliminal, the nudes I've done have made me more prone to see the sensual shapes in a landscape, and the landscapes I've shot have helped me see the "geography" of the human form. It's all connected....
    couldn't agree more eddie
    everything is interconnected ...
    (but most fail to see the connections)

  5. #35
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    You have to do nude studies to learn the human form.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaf-Photo View Post
    I don't see that nudes are necessary in photography.

    If you are a painter or a sculpter then you have to do nude studies to learn the human form. But it's not necessary for photographers.
    Using that arguement there's no reason it can't be just as valid for a photographer yo use the naked body to study human form. It's only your personal judgement that says it isn't.

    There are many poor nude shots around it isn't easy making good images.

    Ian

  6. #36
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    John- I don't always see the connection while composing. Sometimes it isn't until I look at a dried print that I see the connections. It doesn't matter, though. Every area of photography I explore helps with every other area.
    Another thing, which hasn't been mentioned, is the fact that, having shot nudes, I can appreciate the nudes shot by other photographers better. I'm aware of the difficulties inherent in the genre, and am more appreciative of a successful image. It's easy to call them unnecessary, banal, prurient, etc. when you haven't done them. It's like saying you don't like Brussels sprouts without having tasted them.

  7. #37
    Newt_on_Swings's Avatar
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    I missed that previous thread, but nudes are a big part of photography and no one should feel ashamed to photograph it, pose for it, or discuss it. We are a mature lot that shouldn't censor these debates just because a little nudity offends someone. This is art, and I remember a saying that in some aspects, if it's not offending someone, your doing it wrong!

  8. #38
    Jaf-Photo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gandolfi View Post

    A painter or sculpter doesn't "have to learn the human form" - except if they want to do nudes (?)
    Painters and sculpters need a very good knowledge of anatomy even to do artwork of people with their clothes on. The proportions of the body always have to be spot on or it will look all wrong.

    Photographers get that fror free.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie View Post
    John- I don't always see the connection while composing. Sometimes it isn't until I look at a dried print that I see the connections. It doesn't matter, though. Every area of photography I explore helps with every other area.
    Another thing, which hasn't been mentioned, is the fact that, having shot nudes, I can appreciate the nudes shot by other photographers better. I'm aware of the difficulties inherent in the genre, and am more appreciative of a successful image. It's easy to call them unnecessary, banal, prurient, etc. when you haven't done them. It's like saying you don't like Brussels sprouts without having tasted them.
    I don't shoot nudes and I think it would be hard to have a better appreciation for how difficult it is to shoot good nudes than I possess. The photographic evidence is everywhere. I don't think you have to shoot nudes to appreciate that, and in fact it seems the opposite is often true-many of those shooting it aren't very good editors of their own work. The fact that I think much of it is banal should not be construed as meaning I think its easy or that I could shoot it better. I can probably edit better though.
    Nice work. You have a very talented computer.

  10. #40
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Wayne, I think your comment "many of those shooting it aren't very good editors of their own work. The fact that I think much of it is banal should not be construed as meaning I think its easy or that I could shoot it better. I can probably edit better though" is true for all genres of photography.

    John Nanian said much the same in the deleted thread.

    Ian



 

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