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  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post

    We live in a sick world fueled mainly from a non European new world culture which is riddled with gun crime, drugs, paedophiles etc.

    ...

    There's not a lot of common sense in this area.

    Ian
    Please try googling

    Christinia Copenhagen

    or

    BBC Eric Gill

    or

    BBC Jim will fix it

    note that Wikipedia is silent on some of Eric's 'activities'

    I've seen things in the Photographers Gallery that I thought were illegal for public display.

    I'd not attribute the new world as totally responsible.

  2. #72

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    What bothers me with all this is that I don't think people who say they are offended with something are truly offended. If someone is truly offended, they should voice their opinion just as someone else who isn't offended should.

    I feel/think/believe many who do complain do so because they think they should be offended or that complaining somehow elevate their status as a model citizen. Either that or people drum up some victims that may not even exist. "What about children?" Well, what children today have never seen naked or almost naked bodies?? Children in most impressionable ages have just seen teen idle swing across a stage totally naked in a wrecking ball right on TV. Songs today are filled with lyrics I will not repeat on APUG. Children today are bombarded with these "stuff" on daily basis.

    As to if you don't like it, look elsewhere, I partially agree. If someone is posting/doing something in order to offend someone, not artistically so but just for sake of offending, I wish those people stop, or APUG moderators take action. I think there are few here who do this on purpose. If something is not to your taste, then yes, if someone finds someone's work not to their liking, look at something else that do pleases them in one way or another.

    Breast feeding thing is just nuts in my opinion. It's a natural act, but some folks are doing it just to show that they can. I think that makes it unnatural. I think it stopped being a natural act but became a statement at that point. There's such thing as something that is legal but not appropriate for the place or the situation. We tend to go to extreme and complain that people complain.

    OK, I'm done.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    I think there is something essential about the nude in art: we NEED to have it because it serves to expose raw truths about us as humans - there's no hiding behind clothes or costumes. Literally stripped down to the absolute minimum, anything included in a nude must be there for a reason, either as a signifier or a distraction.
    I don't get it. What raw truths are revealed? Note this is an actual question, not any kind of moral hangup crap. Nudity doesn't offend me, nor do I understand why anyone would bother getting so upset about seeing a picture of a naked woman or something. Just don't look at it if you don't like it, or don't approve etc.

    Call me immature if anyone wants to, but I guess the problem for me is I can't really separate the nude female human form from sex or eroticism. You can drape her over rocks, sand, tree branches or the hood of a car.

    I'd also note I can't be the only one like this. Witness the number of views most nudes posted to the gallery get, in comparison to other pictures, and in relation to the number comments (usually very few). There's no way in every case the >100 people who viewed the photo initially looked at the thumbnail and then clicked on it because they were fascinated by the lighting, or how the shapes of the T&A parts echoed the shapes of the rocks.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    .... I can't really separate the nude female human form from sex or eroticism. You can drape her over rocks, sand, tree branches or the hood of a car.
    Depending on the nude female human form, I have the same dilemma.

    Let the flaying begin!
    Kick his ass, Sea Bass!

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    I don't get it. What raw truths are revealed? Note this is an actual question, not any kind of moral hangup crap. Nudity doesn't offend me, nor do I understand why anyone would bother getting so upset about seeing a picture of a naked woman or something. Just don't look at it if you don't like it, or don't approve etc.

    Call me immature if anyone wants to, but I guess the problem for me is I can't really separate the nude female human form from sex or eroticism. You can drape her over rocks, sand, tree branches or the hood of a car.

    I'd also note I can't be the only one like this. Witness the number of views most nudes posted to the gallery get, in comparison to other pictures, and in relation to the number comments (usually very few). There's no way in every case the >100 people who viewed the photo initially looked at the thumbnail and then clicked on it because they were fascinated by the lighting, or how the shapes of the T&A parts echoed the shapes of the rocks.
    ONE of those truths is exactly the phenomenon you observe - we are in fact sexual beings, and we respond sexually to things that are stimulating. And there should be no shame in that.

    People hide inside clothes, as well as expressing themselves through them. Clothing is a form of armor inside which we can pretend to be something we are not. Put on a doublet and tights, and you're Henry VIII. A leather jacket, white t-shirt and jeans, and you're Brando (or James Dean). You may in fact BE the person you appear to be in clothing, but the viewer cannot know that. Is that confidence on your face in the photo real, or is it because you're wearing that bad-ass biker outfit? Of course, that confident look could be pure and simple acting by a talented actor, but when the subject is nude, you know it isn't coming from their outfit imposing a persona upon them. Any persona they exhibit is entirely of their own invention and communication, not something the viewer imputes.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post

    Call me immature if anyone wants to, but I guess the problem for me is I can't really separate the nude female human form from sex or eroticism. You can drape her over rocks, sand, tree branches or the hood of a car.
    Another question I'd like to poke at separately - I realize that, given most of the forum members here are heterosexual males, when they hear the word 'nude' their first thought leaps to female nudes. I personally find it frustrating that this is the situation. There is equal measure of art (and non-art) in the male nude form. It might in fact help you to understand the point I was making in my original comment if you viewed nudes that did not immediately strike your sexual sensibilities to see them as something other than pseudo-porn. I'm actually offering a class this fall on Narrative Using the Male Figure - the idea is to look at how you can tell stories through the use of the human form, in series as well as in single images. The use of the nude figure is to force students to think about how to communicate ideas through gesture and expression, posing and lighting.

    You can ask any serious nude figure photographer about their experience working with nude models and they'll tell you, if they're being honest, that they do have some moment of sexual stimulation at the beginning of the shoot, but after about 5 minutes of working, that's entirely gone and the last thing on their mind is sex. They really are thinking about lighting, posing, is that leaf getting in the way in a good or bad way, etc.

  7. #77

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    some people see porn in fruits and vegetables, others in trees
    ( someone told me once " that tree print of yours looks like a giant ass " )
    others in the human form ( male or female ) draped and on the hood of a car or selling snap on tools.

    we are all entitled to our opinions about what we thing it is and isn't
    the line between art+porn is vague / blurry ... vague enough that a us supreme court justice
    said he couldn't say what it was, but he knew it when he saw it ...

    maybe to some people it strips away everything but truth and vulnerability
    but to others, no doubt it is just "big 20¢ college words for an art school thesis and personal reasons taking pictures of naked people"
    ( not that that is a bad, cause it sounds like a good thesis and great reasons for photographing nudes )
    Last edited by jnanian; 05-27-2014 at 12:13 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    ... They really are thinking about lighting, posing, is that leaf getting in the way in a good or bad way, etc.
    What leaf, a fig leaf?

  9. #79
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    There is (virtually) no answer to this because attitudes vary so much. Of course, there is a point where nudity, art, sexuality, pornography combine to an extent where someone gets offended. That point is not a singularity but depends on the viewer, their culture and perspective. Yes, for most (all I hope) of people here, there is a point we must not cross that takes us into things that are down right illegal in all cultures, but I don't mind art that to some would definitely be classed as porn; mentioning no names, but there are artists here who have parts of their gallery that should only be entered with an open mind, and why not!. On the other hand, there are certainly cultures where even the very uncontroversial images (to most european eyes) we see in the gallery would be anathema to public display. This subject comes up regularly, and I say live and let live. If you don't like something, don't look. I have never seen anything here that crosses into illegality in any western sense, so what's the big deal. Some of the most interesting images on here have been male nudes, and I'm male, so nudity isn't necessarily sexist. And one of the most disturbing images (to me) on here involved clothed people (and I'm not re-opening an old thread, so won't be specific) My 2p/c

  10. #80
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    The attitude of nudes as porn has changed. While I was in college in the 80's, the women's studies majors railed against naked women in photos produced by male photo students. It was considered exploitation of a women's body. I now work in a university art department's computer lab and I've seen a young women retouching her own nude photo of herself on a with her private area clearly exposed. What ever is consider is art or pornography is a transaction between the creator and the consumer. The intent of the work and why and how it is consumed. What the difference in what transpires in an art museum and in an adult bookstore? What's the difference between public desire and private desire. Is one more shameful than the other? One has more cultural value? I do think that porn does distort the view of sexuality while art hopefully makes us think beyond what is presented to us.
    "Photography, like surfing, is an infinite process, a constantly evolving exploration of life."
    Aaron Chang

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