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  1. #151
    bruce terry's Avatar
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    Stumbled upon an interesting 1912 image 'Dance Study' by Baron Adolph de Meyer while browsing The Metropolitan Museum of Art website. I can't get the address into my copy but it's easy to find.

    Baron de Meyer was born 1868 Paris, educated in Dresden, joined Royal Photographic Society 1893, a photo-seccessionist group in 1898 and in the early 1900s he and his wife's home (in Paris?) became HQ for a 'coterie' of artistic (including dance companies) and bohemian guests. (By 1914 he had moved to New York as head photographer for Vogue and Vanity Fair.)

    That background in hand, I would just bet this dramatic study was considered heavy-duty porn back then. Now it is Art in a premier museum. Timing is everything sometimes.
    Last edited by bruce terry; 11-05-2006 at 05:13 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #152
    Salmonoid's Avatar
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    DMR,

    Point well taken. But someone is get pleasure, no matter how destructive that pleasure may be to another human being. Good clarification.

  3. #153
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    [ Do we have the right to tell a Muslim how to live their religion? In the end of all of this is it not respect for others beliefs, and culture?[/QUOTE]

    If you care to look away as someone else is being sexually exploited, I would not call that the correct action. Is it tolerance and respect to allow one person to destroy another?

    I have every right and duty to do good to my neighbor no matter what their religion is.

  4. #154
    Salmonoid's Avatar
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    Quote: And yes we can enjoy a host of lustful stimuli without having to actually create children, provide long-term care for their other parent, and all the other associations one can cite as 'love.'

    My question is simply, which is more noble and human? To love or to lust? Which should we cultivate? Is there no pleasure in self giving love? Is that pleasure greater than the pleasures of lustful stimuli?

  5. #155
    blansky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salmonoid View Post
    *Warning* Do not read if you are easily upset.

    This is a very important subject for visual artists let me start by acknowledging some obvious and universal facts (things that are ignored by much of those contributing to this thread).

    1. All sex is pleasurable. (heterosexual, homosexual, monosexual, s&m) This simply is how we're designed as sexual beings. It is very mechanical, and we are not vastly different from one another. Rub Y, get X. That simple.

    2. Pleasure can be destructive. Just because something is edifying in one context, in another it can harm and destroy. For instance, fire does a wonderful job of roasting asparagus to that perfect softness/crispness to make it a pure pleasure, but fire all over the kitchen, or all over the forest is a terrible producer of death and destruction. Examples: Abuse of drugs is pleasurable but it leads to self destruction. To much alchohol leads to death on the highway and destruction of your liver. Licentious living leads to sexually transmitted deseases.

    3. Sexuallity serves the essential function of reproduction of the human species. This is a very good thing. Nuff said.

    4. Children are dependant on a stable environment, and need protection from those who can easily harm them. Healthy and lifelong heterosexual relationships are the most complete and healthy relationship for raising children who become healthy adults. Our society wishes to deny this so that we can excuse our adidiction to sexual pleasure at the expense of the healthy reproduction of our species.

    5. Men are aroused visually. Women much less so. This is were pornography comes in.

    6. Pornography is addictive to many males, and will lead to the foresaking of spouse and family for self gratification. It is a well established fact that all sexaul preditors are users of pornography first. Sexual arousal leads to sexual acts, most of which are destructive of healthy marriage, and nurturing of children.

    Now I certainly hope that no one here would argue with any of they truths. If they offend you, you should ask yourself why reality bites. I would also hope that you would not produce art which leads to destructive sexual behavior, but would aim for a more edifying goal. Stop being an animal, and be human.

    Rev. Timothy Gordish

    Father of an adopted child who was the product of fornication, neglected by her mother, abused by a boyfriend and used for child pornography. We are currently dealing the the devasting effects of her early sexualization.
    Good luck with the child. Seriously.

    Beware of universal truths. They are rarely universal, and even rarer, true.

    Children thrive on love, nurturing, and direction from whomever supplies it.

    Don't marry people with addictive personalites. One day it's drugs, the next day religion. There is no end.

    Humans thrive on mental stimulation as well as physical. On mans pornography is another's medical journal.

    Eat your vegetables.


    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  6. #156
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salmonoid View Post
    *Warning* Do not read if you are easily upset.

    This is a very important subject for visual artists let me start by acknowledging some obvious and universal facts (things that are ignored by much of those contributing to this thread).

    1. All sex is pleasurable. (heterosexual, homosexual, monosexual, s&m) This simply is how we're designed as sexual beings. It is very mechanical, and we are not vastly different from one another. Rub Y, get X. That simple.

    2. Pleasure can be destructive. Just because something is edifying in one context, in another it can harm and destroy. For instance, fire does a wonderful job of roasting asparagus to that perfect softness/crispness to make it a pure pleasure, but fire all over the kitchen, or all over the forest is a terrible producer of death and destruction. Examples: Abuse of drugs is pleasurable but it leads to self destruction. To much alchohol leads to death on the highway and destruction of your liver. Licentious living leads to sexually transmitted deseases.

    3. Sexuallity serves the essential function of reproduction of the human species. This is a very good thing. Nuff said.

    4. Children are dependant on a stable environment, and need protection from those who can easily harm them. Healthy and lifelong heterosexual relationships are the most complete and healthy relationship for raising children who become healthy adults. Our society wishes to deny this so that we can excuse our adidiction to sexual pleasure at the expense of the healthy reproduction of our species.

    5. Men are aroused visually. Women much less so. This is were pornography comes in.

    6. Pornography is addictive to many males, and will lead to the foresaking of spouse and family for self gratification. It is a well established fact that all sexaul preditors are users of pornography first. Sexual arousal leads to sexual acts, most of which are destructive of healthy marriage, and nurturing of children.

    Now I certainly hope that no one here would argue with any of they truths. If they offend you, you should ask yourself why reality bites. I would also hope that you would not produce art which leads to destructive sexual behavior, but would aim for a more edifying goal. Stop being an animal, and be human.

    Rev. Timothy Gordish

    Father of an adopted child who was the product of fornication, neglected by her mother, abused by a boyfriend and used for child pornography. We are currently dealing the the devasting effects of her early sexualization.
    I would be interested to see where you got your statistics about porn use and sexual predators. I would also like to see where you got your "fact" that a heterosexual coupling is the superior way to raise a child. I have seen numerous studies that prove children raised in a stable, loving same-sex couple are indistinguishable from children raised in a heterosexual coupling. They are no more prone to psychological issues, poor academic performance, misbehavior, or any other problem than children raised in hetero households. They are certainly no more prone to being abused by their parents, if anything, they are less likely, since being a homosexual parent takes infinitely greater legal paperwork and governmental supervision than being a heterosexual parent does. It is a known fact that the vast majority of child sex abusers ( at least 90%) are heterosexual.

  7. #157
    Salmonoid's Avatar
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    "Beware of universal truths. They are rarely universal, and even rarer, true."

    Is this a univeral truth? If it is not, then there must be universal truths. If it is, then it is self contradicting.

  8. #158
    bjorke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salmonoid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    And yes we can enjoy a host of lustful stimuli without having to actually create children, provide long-term care for their other parent, and all the other associations one can cite as 'love.'
    My question is simply, which is more noble and human? To love or to lust? Which should we cultivate? Is there no pleasure in self giving love? Is that pleasure greater than the pleasures of lustful stimuli?
    Straw men and teleological smoke & mirrors, all. Saying 'lust is good' does not preclude the value of love. 'Nobility' implies a pre-ordained heirarchy, among species and usually among humans specifically. I have little evidence that one set of humans is a priori intrinsically superior to another, or that humans are inherently superior to beetles -- considerable history hints that they are not. I enjoy being human and all that comes with being human -- not being some flawed copy of a 'more perfect' boogieman.

    'Self giving love'... well I'm not going to guess at what that means but it sounds like lustful stimuli to me

    "What Would Zeus Do?"
    KBPhotoRantPhotoPermitAPUG flickr Robot

  9. #159
    Salmonoid's Avatar
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    "I would also like to see where you got your "fact" that a heterosexual coupling is the superior way to raise a child."

    I am speaking in idealistic terms. If you were to compare apples to apples, and not rotten bannas (maybe I should stick to vegetibles) then heterosexual coupling is superior because they model a relationship that is reproductive, vice simply erotic. Homosexual sex does not produce life, if life is superior, then heterosexual coupling is superior.

    A homosexual couple as parents is superior to no parent at all, and this is often the case in real life, and not the ideal, but we should always strive for the ideal.

  10. #160
    bruce terry's Avatar
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    One of the best things about this photography site, above all the others, is that fools are suffered gladly, or simply disregarded - I of course speak of my inability to incorporate a website link in my copy a few posts back.



 

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