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  1. #171
    Christopher Nisperos's Avatar
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    a slightly sarcastic break in the thread ... then, back to sewing

    Quote Originally Posted by Salmonoid View Post
    *Warning* Do not read if you are easily upset.
    ... ... No problem, Rev ... I've got Pepto-Bismol

    By the way, "Warning" yerself ... my response is totally tongue-in-cheek. It's late here, I'm in my "wise guy" mode (eventhough this is a relatively serious thread that I, myself began ), and Rev. Salmanoid's post is just begging me for comic dissection. Here goes ...

    This is a very important subject for visual artists let me start by acknowledging some obvious and universal facts (things that are ignored by much of those contributing to this thread).

    1. All sex is pleasurable. (heterosexual, homosexual, monosexual, s&m)
    ... ... You never met my first girlfriend... sex with her was either "monosexual" .. or just plain monotonous. She turned me into a bi-sexual (I use both hands).

    Secondly, about "all sex is pleasurable" ... how did you like S&M ?

    This simply is how we're designed as sexual beings. It is very mechanical, and we are not vastly different from one another.
    .. .. .. you ever shower with Michael Jordan?

    Rub Y, get X. That simple.
    ... ... You talkin' about sex, ... or fire-starting? Hope you keep the sandpaper away from your bedside :o

    2. Pleasure can be destructive.
    ... ... On the other hand, destruction can be pleasurable (think of pyromaniacs or mercenaries)... now where's the perversion? Actually, Rev, can't too much of anything become destructive?

    Just because something is edifying in one context, in another it can harm and destroy.
    ... ... Careful! Some have said that about religion!

    For instance, fire does a wonderful job of roasting asparagus to that perfect softness/crispness to make it a pure pleasure,
    ... ... You roast asparagus? I've never tried that. Got any secrets for artichokes?

    but fire all over the kitchen, or all over the forest is a terrible producer of death and destruction.
    ... ... We can't seem to escape the subject of fire, huh? Well, I guess it's natural for a religious guy ... anyway, don't forget the benefits of burning the underbrush in certain forests (or behind certain refrigerators). As for producers of death and destruction, I've always thought that Irwin Allen did a great job on The Poseidon Adventure, don't you?

    Examples: Abuse of drugs is pleasurable but it leads to self destruction. To much alchohol leads to death on the highway and destruction of your liver.
    .. .. .. or the Presidency? (no flames, please ... yes I know he no longer drinks. That's my point)

    Licentious living leads to sexually transmitted deseases.
    .. .. .. Not to mention back problems and tardiness at work.

    3. Sexuallity serves the essential function of reproduction of the human species. This is a very good thing. Nuff said.
    .. .. .. it also serves to keep a thread going for a reeel long time. Snuff is bad.

    4. Children are dependant on a stable environment, and need protection from those who can easily harm them.
    ... ... Serious point with which I agree. No joke here, but see others, below.

    Healthy and lifelong heterosexual relationships are the most complete and healthy relationship for raising children who become healthy adults.
    .. .. ..because we heterosexuals never harm our children ... only those evil homos —or divorced, single parents— do. Oooo. I feel another thread coming on ... see you there, Rev, OK? Don't be shy ..

    Our society wishes to deny this so that we can excuse our adidiction to sexual pleasure
    .. .. .. or our "addiction" to divorce

    at the expense of the healthy reproduction of our species.
    .. .. .. Summary: sexual pleasure threatens the human race.

    5. Men are aroused visually. Women much less so. This is were pornography comes in.
    .. .. .. Of course, you're not saying that all pornography is for men, are you? 'Cause if that's the case, I'm gonna start buying PlayGirl magazines and gluing different heads onto the pictures of those guys .. I'll leave the rest of the bod as-is and just imagine it's a transsexual....

    6. Pornography is addictive to many males, and will lead to the foresaking of spouse and family for self gratification.
    ... ... Hey! "Self gratification" is often a way for a guy to stay faithful to his wife instead of catting around (especially after the fire has left a relationship ..oops, here we go with 'fire' again) Jeepers, Rev .. you really think that men pack up the Playboys and skip out on their families to wank-off in some log cabin in the woods for the rest of their lives? (actually.. sounds like an attractive lifestyle ... put I'd have to take breaks to do photography and order-out for pizza and stuff .. Ah, nevermind)

    It is a well established fact that all sexaul preditors are users of pornography first.
    .. .. .. and towels, second

    Sexual arousal leads to sexual acts, most of which are destructive of healthy marriage, and nurturing of children.
    .. .. .. or, on the re-write: Sexual arousal leads to sexual acts ... which lead to children .. .. and the destruction of the marriage from which they resulted and their subsequent nurturing. WHAT?

    Now I certainly hope that no one here would argue with any of they truths.
    ... ... Nope. Scout's horror ..eh, honor

    If they offend you, you should ask yourself why reality bites.
    .. .. ..naw, Rev. The expression is, "reality sucks". Feels better than a bite. (Hope I don't offend you).

    I would also hope that you would not produce art which leads to destructive sexual behavior,
    .. .. ..nor destroy art which leads to productive sexual behavior

    but would aim for a more edifying goal.
    .. .. .. because art is about edifying, and nothing else. Plus, never create art because something pleases you ... create art to fulfill someone else's goal (aka, a "product shot", or now known as "the edifying shot":rolleyes

    Stop being an animal, and be human.
    .. .. .. That's what I would have said to the religious guys who burned Joan of Arc alive, or the religious guys who burn crosses and bombed churches, or the religious guys who today in Africa preach abstinence in place of advocating the use of condoms, putting religious dogma ahead of human suffering. I'd say, "Stop being religious animals. Be human."

    [signed] Rev. Timothy Gordish . .
    Father of an adopted child who was the product of fornication, neglected by her mother, abused by a boyfriend and used for child pornography. We are currently dealing the the devasting effects of her early sexualization.
    .. .. .. Rev, it is admirable of you to have adopted that child. I mean that sincerely. However, you seem to be "using" this child to give yourself credibility for some of your questionable points (sorry, not "truths", but your opinions), above. As no-one even questioned your "authority" (yet), it's bit of overkill, don't you think? Leave the kid out of it, and best of luck raising her. Best of luck to her, too.

    If some of my sarcasm has irked you, well ... then I've reached half my objective. The other half is to provoke you to think —from another angle, or with more reflection. As my late, wise mother used to say, there's always some truth in humor. As a man of the church, you should be used to finding truth. Go for it.

    Christopher Nisperos
    PS - friendly suggestion: get SpellCheck
    Last edited by Christopher Nisperos; 11-05-2006 at 06:54 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #172
    bruce terry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    Somehow, I think we've seen your model before....One should always fear religion and its power brokers more that one ever need fear sex in its many forms.
    Sums the bottom line of this tangented sub-thread in spades. Amen.

  3. #173
    Salmonoid's Avatar
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    Ya, my spelling sucks...(not bites) but that has always my downfall in the literary arts. I guess that is why I enjoy photography.

    So... what is the point? That I am a hypocrite simply because I have ideals. That I burned Joan of Arc? That I am sexually repressed? (I guess I suffer a lesser of two evils) That I be irked? That you can't address my points directly? I guess I just don't get it because I didn't study hard, and strive for academic excellence, and ended up in the church?

    What exactly is it that I said that evokes your response? What is the essence of your disagreement? Spoken like a high school student in chemistry class..."I don't get it!"


    BTW I checked the spelling on this one so hopefully it is better.

  4. #174
    Aggie's Avatar
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    Can we get back to friendly smut?
    Non Digital Diva

  5. #175
    Christopher Nisperos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salmonoid View Post
    Ya, my spelling sucks...(not bites) but that has always my downfall in the literary arts. I guess that is why I enjoy photography.

    So... what is the point? That I am a hypocrite simply because I have ideals. That I burned Joan of Arc? That I am sexually repressed? (I guess I suffer a lesser of two evils) That I be irked? That you can't address my points directly? I guess I just don't get it because I didn't study hard, and strive for academic excellence, and ended up in the church?

    What exactly is it that I said that evokes your response? What is the essence of your disagreement? Spoken like a high school student in chemistry class..."I don't get it!"


    BTW I checked the spelling on this one so hopefully it is better.
    Naw, relax. I'll agree with you that comedy can be a cowardly —and sometimes hurtful— way of confronting an issue. I feel that I'm guilty of both here. It's certainly not my intention to be hurtful, and if I have been, I heartfully apologize to you.

    My points of contention are a little overdone 'cause I'm trying to be funny. But as they are given almost sentence-by-sentence, I don't think further explanation is really necessary.

    My main point is that a (Fine Art) photographer shouldn't have to think it's necessary to create work with a pre-conceived, dogmatic agenda in his head. Otherwise what you get is called propaganda (religious or political). If expression is real, it has to flow -or pour out naturally, and the best expression comes from unbridled thinking, that's all. If an artist is animalistic, well ... we'll see that in his or her work. Why should every artist produce clean, "edifying" work? That's not what I would call variety. The spice of life is about
    contrasts and differences. Ok, sure... not everybody wants variety in their life, but that doesn't give them a right to impose that lifestyle on others and —furthermore— define what art should be, based upon their own morals or values.

    Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, I'm free at last ... even to create porn art.
    (there, Aggie ... Happy?)
    .
    Last edited by Christopher Nisperos; 11-05-2006 at 07:28 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #176
    Salmonoid's Avatar
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    My main point is that a (Fine Art) photographer shouldn't have to think it's necessary to create work with a pre-conceived, dogmatic agenda in his head. Otherwise what you get is called propaganda (religious or political). If expression is real, it has to flow -or pour out naturally, and the best expression comes from unbridled thinking, that's all.

    I am in complete agreement with this.

    Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, I'm free at last ... even to create porn art.

    My point would be: Although you are free to do all things, not all things are edifying to others.

    Now to add some scripture and get religious on you, but it expresses the essence of the Christian walk in the freedom that we have.

    1Cor. 10:23 ¶ “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.

    This was my intention in my post, and my main point. Pornography hurts children, I prefer to help them. We need to consider the consequences of our freedom.

  7. #177
    JBrunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salmonoid View Post
    *Warning* Do not read if you are easily upset.

    This is a very important subject for visual artists let me start by acknowledging some obvious and universal facts (things that are ignored by much of those contributing to this thread).

    Now I certainly hope that no one here would argue with any of they truths. Rev. Timothy Gordish

    Father of an adopted child who was the product of fornication
    an adopted child who was the "product" of fornication, well golly, ... does she have to wear a big "F" on her sweater? How is a child a "product"?

    Hmmm.... universal facts....don't argue with truths

    Quote Originally Posted by Salmonoid View Post
    Homosexual sex does not produce life, if life is superior, then heterosexual coupling is superior.
    superior....... I see....well....


    Dogmatic, rigid conclusions (so called truths) are often the result of indoctrination into systematic belief systems.
    Control mechanisms exist within the structure to create an "in" group, and an "out" group.
    Usually, the criterea are advanced by an "alpha male" (the leader) who interpretes and defines the structure of the belief system. The leader does not author the criterea, but is mandated as the conduit to a divine source.
    Persons who belong to the "out" group are anyone who does not subscribe to the belief system. Rational discussion on certain subjects is not often possible by members of the "out" group, with those who have been indoctrinated into the "in" group, because it is not possible to have a rational discussion with someone who holds an irrational position as a result of a belief system.
    Flawed concepts like "universal truth" are used to preclude examination of established dogma within the group, promoting harmony and obedience within the unit, while effort is made to focus attention and energy toward the percieved "failings" of the "out" group, (who are further subdivided by the "in" group, with a variety of labels) thereby reinforcing the dogma, and helping to alleviate that terrible, pervasive fear that someone, somewhere, is having fun.

    Thats just, like....my opinion... I'm fresh out of universal truths.

    BTW, I'm the one on the right.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails j&j.jpg  
    Last edited by JBrunner; 11-05-2006 at 10:49 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #178
    Gim
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    [QUOTE=Salmonoid;387607

    This was my intention in my post, and my main point. Pornography hurts children, I prefer to help them. We need to consider the consequences of our freedom.[/QUOTE]

    Does artistic (?) porn cause more damage to children than war, poverty, hunger, hate, politics or religion. Statistics anyone??
    Jim

  9. #179
    Christopher Nisperos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salmonoid View Post
    My main point is that a (Fine Art) photographer shouldn't have to think it's necessary to create work with a pre-conceived, dogmatic agenda in his head. Otherwise what you get is called propaganda (religious or political). If expression is real, it has to flow -or pour out naturally, and the best expression comes from unbridled thinking, that's all.

    I am in complete agreement with this.

    Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, I'm free at last ... even to create porn art.

    My point would be: Although you are free to do all things, not all things are edifying to others.

    Now to add some scripture and get religious on you, but it expresses the essence of the Christian walk in the freedom that we have.

    1Cor. 10:23 ¶ “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.

    This was my intention in my post, and my main point. Pornography hurts children, I prefer to help them. We need to consider the consequences of our freedom.

    OK. You want your flame? You've got it:

    What is your trip with this "edifying" mantra? Apparently you think that nothing can be considered Art or artistic unless it has some magic stamp of approval with the letters e-d-i-f-y-i-n-g. Dude-man-Rev, take an art class. As for the rest (scriptures,etc.), please save it for your congregation. What moves me is photography.

    Secondly, don't you even dare to try to mix the issues of "Artistic Pornography" and "pornography hurts children". You know darn well that one issue doesn't necessarily have to do with the other. In the latter issue, no one on this thread or forum would disagree with you, but if you're trying to suggest that a photographer who creates such work is "bad" and is automatically hurting children ... and that you are "good" because you don't create the same knid of work ... I'm afraid that many of us on the forum will land squarely upon you with both feet. With all the incidents in the news over the last several years about preists and reverends having their way with kids and adolescents, I certainly won't be lectured-to by you about how my photography might "hurt children".

    You said: "Pornography hurts children, I prefer to help them. We need to consider the consequences of our freedom". Please. We need to consider the consequenses of our BS.
    Ever think about how many kids DIE in Africa every day òr are left orphans because their parents have died of AIDS, and the Catholic church STILL maintains that it's a sin to use a damned rubber?
    .

    . http://www.avert.org/photo_search.ph...age_type=photo
    .
    .
    Talk about immoral. Go sit down and come back when you've repented.

    .
    Last edited by Christopher Nisperos; 11-05-2006 at 08:31 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #180
    Christopher Nisperos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBrunner View Post
    BTW, I'm the one on the right.
    Hey, JB, nice pic. Where you born in December, by chance? In a barn?



 

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