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  1. #241
    blansky's Avatar
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    I just looked at the Roy Stuart work. His work seems very cinematic and an exploration of sexual fantasies. It's a sort of detached erotica more in the vein of a porno movie. Beautiful people, beautifully lit, having sex.

    I see this stuff every night on the porno channel. Whooops, I mean this stuff is available every night on the porno channel.


    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  2. #242
    Christopher Nisperos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhv View Post
    What about Roy Stuart? Given that he uses precisely the visual conventions of pornography in his work, wherein would lie that fine line he wants us to make between porn and his work?
    Funny thing about Roy Stuart's work, I often get a feeling from it of commercial photography, rather (or more than) so-called fine art (ok, ok .. admitting the sometimes blurred line between the two). I mean, I can easily imagine some of his work serving as fashion shots in Vogue, even as crude/nude as some of it can be.

    (speaking of which, don't forget a trend in fashion photography whose vestiges are still trailing around here and there, to imply pornography
    in certain shoots)

  3. #243
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    Jim French's stuff bores me to tears... I'd say regardless of how well lit it may or may not be, it firmly comes down on the side of porn - soft-core or medium-core, depending on your take on it, but nonetheless, porn. It's the gay equivalent of Penthouse (a bit raunchier than Playboy/Playgirl, but not Hustler-esque). The Bruce Weber stuff he did for Abercrombie & Fitch, to me, sidles right up against the porn limits, despite the mainstream distribution of the images, and the "artsy" composition, lighting and printing. BTW - did you know that Bruce owns a Littman? Knowing this, does that push him over the line one direction or the other???

  4. #244
    Christopher Nisperos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
    Dear Michael,

    Once, I'd have agreed with you. But consider this comment from the younger sister of a girl I once fancied. She (the sister, not the girl) was maybe 14. When she heard I has a Hamilton book, she asked to borrow it.

    "You see one, and you think, wow. And you see another, and you think, he's good. And by the tenth you say, what else can he do?"

    That's why I've not bought another Hamilton book in 25-30 years.

    Porn? Possibly; possibly not. I don't really care in either case. The main purpose was to draw a parallel with Sturges, where there is far less overt eroticism.

    Cheers,

    R.
    Hey, Raj .. your right. Earlier this year, here in the big city, there was a Hamilton exhibit. The work looked amazingly like the stuff I remember from the 1970's. But at least he can't be accused of not having his own look!

    For me, it's corny rather than porny. However, there is still some shock-value
    when a pre-pubescent, bare-chested girl is starring you in the eyes. More disconcerting than erotic.
    .

  5. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Nisperos View Post
    Hey, Raj .. your right.
    .
    Cher Nisp,

    Of course I'm right, dear boy. I make a habit of it, whenever possible. Though I have to admit I've seen very little of David Hamilton's new work in, well, maybe 25-30 years. Or maybe I have and didn't realize it was new.

    But don't knock it. There have to be many worse ways of earning a living, and what looks like quite a good living at that. I think I'd be happy with his lifestyle and income, though it's always hard to tell, and it's all very hypothetical anyway: I'm happy only with a couple of my nude shots, ever, and the subject had to be pushing 30 at the time.

    Now we're really into the realm of 'Is It Art'? A friend of mine used to paint what he called 'wallpaper' for a leading London furniture stores: as I recall, 3 paintings for a thousand quid, thirty years ago. What's that today? Five thousand ($9500)? Ten thousand (£19,000)? It funded his serious work.

    Next question: has anyone seen Hamilton's serious work?

    Cheers,

    R.

  6. #246
    Christopher Nisperos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    Jim French's stuff bores me to tears... I'd say regardless of how well lit it may or may not be, it firmly comes down on the side of porn - soft-core or medium-core, depending on your take on it, but nonetheless, porn. It's the gay equivalent of Penthouse (a bit raunchier than Playboy/Playgirl, but not Hustler-esque). The Bruce Weber stuff he did for Abercrombie & Fitch, to me, sidles right up against the porn limits, despite the mainstream distribution of the images, and the "artsy" composition, lighting and printing. BTW - did you know that Bruce owns a Littman? Knowing this, does that push him over the line one direction or the other???
    Dear Flying,

    I dunno. While I'd probably agree that a nude-with-erection could be considered porn (whatever degree you choose), seems to me that a simple nude pose (especially when not showing the genitals), isn't really pornographic. To return to the question: boring or not, would you consider it art?

    (Interesting observation: Taking your phrase, "Jim French's stuff bores me to tears" and substituting Ansel Adam's name, this is something I've heard before! Yet French and Adams both sell lots of prints, post cards and calendars .... hmmm... maybe "boring" is a market-segment we're all missing?)

    (nawwww)

    .

  7. #247
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salmonoid View Post
    The fact that there is a direct link between pornography and sexual assault in children and adults is well documented. Please go to this web site for a listing of studies concerning this topic. www.ktk.ru/~cm/stat2.htm
    It took a while, but I finally have been able to wade through much of the "proof" (n.b. quotation marks) presented on this site. After straining everything through my "Does it prove there is a significant relationship between cause and effect" filter, there isn't a lot left, and the greater part of all that really falls into the category of "everyone knows".

    Interesting statistics: "43% of sexual predators were exposed to pornography." What do we compare that to ... there is no mention of the incidence of "exposure to pornography" among the general public, or among those who are NOT sexual predators... and without that comparison, coherent conclusions are difficult, at best.

    One thing in particular was interesting -- the idea that abstaining from sex was in some way 'healthful" while participating in it, under ANY circumstances - was not ... and that even pro ...? digressed? ... to the idea of "If you play with yourself, you'll go blind".

    Oh, come ON!! In this day and age?

    I would suggest one thing ... take time to read everything on this site. Consider all the pseudo - medical jargon, and the "Well, YOU don't know - and I do!" attitudes. The more I read, the more it sounded like a transcript of the Bible-thumping frenzy so common to the ... not really Evangelical ... "Sour Godliness" programs on the idiot box.

    To tell the truth, that web site scares me. The ONE distiguishing factor is that of denial, and with it, a severely unbalanced set of theories. I wonder how these "abstainers" do as time goes by ... How many will say, "Well, yes - I bought crystal meth ... but I didn't USE it ... I threw it away ... or its sexual equivalent.

    In the meantime -- I'll read some erotic literature - beautifully written: The Song of Solomon, in my King James Bible.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  8. #248
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Nisperos View Post
    Funny thing about Roy Stuart's work, I often get a feeling from it of commercial photography, rather (or more than) so-called fine art (ok, ok .. admitting the sometimes blurred line between the two). I mean, I can easily imagine some of his work serving as fashion shots in Vogue, even as crude/nude as some of it can be.

    (speaking of which, don't forget a trend in fashion photography whose vestiges are still trailing around here and there, to imply pornography
    in certain shoots)
    Like the Guess ads, for example. I find these particularly tasteless: it's always involving a girl with spread open legs and something in front of the quaint area (e.g. a cinema clapper). Shot in a dumb way, so no, there is no thoughtful treatment of its subject. The problem is with the treatment, not the subject.

    Roy Stuart to me looks very 80's in the way he lights stuff, the feel of the film stock, his color compositions (lots of blue...).
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  9. #249
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sukach View Post
    It took a while, but I finally have been able to wade through much of the "proof" (n.b. quotation marks) presented on this site. After straining everything through my "Does it prove there is a significant relationship between cause and effect" filter, there isn't a lot left, and the greater part of all that really falls into the category of "everyone knows".
    Seriously Ed, I've been trying to tell him that but it doesn't seem like it matters. I agree with you: all of that evidence is gerrymandered to prove a point it does not support. And there's nothing that's not at least 15 years old. In terms of quality of literature review, I'm sure an undergrad could do better.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  10. #250

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sukach View Post

    In the meantime -- I'll read some erotic literature - beautifully written: The Song of Solomon, in my King James Bible.
    Go, Ed, go!

    My Sunday school teacher told me that Solomon was the wisest person ever. If so, and given his lifestyle, remember that this is the person chosen by Jehovah to build his temple, it's hard to see how people who believe this story can be prudish about sex. How many concubines were there? Kinda puts a different spin on the current Christian interpretations of fornication and adultery. And then there's the Song of Solomon. Somehow our pastor never got around to giving a sermon on it, and I had to go every week for 18 years.



 

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