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  1. #271
    Aggie's Avatar
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    Peter you have no idea what I can express sexually. I just know when it is common decency to do so. I choose not to do so on the internet where the world would read it. I hope your students are of legal age. All it takes is one parent to be upset about the subject matter a child underage is taught in school, even sex ed classes, to get you in serious trouble. I kept my kids of the school sex ed classes simply becasue I felt I could teach them better. I also did not agree with the curriculum they taught. Yeah I read it all before denying my kids be taught at the school. Now you are probably smiling thinking I have kids that are sexually repressed or worse know nothing. My kids are far from that. In fact one Dr. when my daughter was 10 asked her in my presence if she had been taught about sex at school. She said no. The Dr. started yelling at me for it. Then my dauighter chimed in and asked him what he would like to know about it. After about 10 minutes of explaining to him in embarrasing frankness he blushed and shut up. a 10 year old taught by her mother (me) embarrased a medical dr. with her frankness and knowledge.
    Last edited by Ole; 11-20-2006 at 02:21 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Unnecessary personal insults
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  2. #272
    bjorke's Avatar
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    Now, I know that APUG is international, and that its administration is not required to follow any particular code other than that imposed by Sean et al.

    However, I hope Americans realize that 'freedom of religion' is specifically worded in the constituion as freedom FROM religious authority:
    Quote Originally Posted by A Bunch of Old-Skool Guys
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    Meaning that 'offense to religion or religious groups' should bear no legal weight at all. In perfect post-David-Hume style, the framers here declare religion merely an opinion, and of no more substance than, say, flying spaghetti monsters. Note that in the very same sentence the framers of the constitution included protection of that annoying 'freedom of speech' idea -- weird, huh? You don't suppose that they thought that religious privelege might be abused by some people as an excuse to make others shut the heck up? And that it was such a common and important issue that the framers made it the very first part of the Bill of Rights?

    Hmm, could be....
    Last edited by bjorke; 11-20-2006 at 02:29 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: typo

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  3. #273
    jd callow's Avatar
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    Excellent post kevin.

    Can Pormography be art? Maybe, but probably not to those who think it is pornographic. Can the depiction of sexual acts be art? I think so. Can images of war, death, cruelty, and other such things be art? Yes, but probably not to those who are being warred(sp?) upon, killed, etc...

    Just my 2c. In the US you (should) have the freedom to speak as well as the freedom to ignore.

    *

  4. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmr View Post

    Speaking very freely, much of what I would call pornography is incredibly crude and demeaning. It's obviously produced by men, for men, for the purpose of arousal, period. There is no intimate artistry in this type of production. I'm sure everybody knows exactly what type of material I am referring to. (It's obvious that the producers of some of what I have seen have no {f-bomb}ing clue, pun intended, as to what intimacy really is.)
    Well, having cable I can wach every day on my TV porn. And I can say it is BORING. And very disgusting. It is produced by men, for men, but if producers made it to arouse, they missed the point... And I am a man. Or, maybe, female in man's body... lesbian...

    Saying that, ARTE had few nights ago themathic evening about pornography (ARTE is French/German artistic satellite TV channel, and they have on evenings broadcastings about specifis themes. They broadcast from 20.00 (8PM) till about midnight different programmes (documentaries, feature movies, interviews, etc...) about that evening theme).

    According to what I saw that night, pornography is here to stay, become mainstream (like digital ), and some parts of pornography, especially from 1970es or 80es (movies and magazines) could be seen almost as art.

    One can agree or not, but when one see what happens on Cannes film festival (Hot d'Or award), I think it is not far from true...

    So, what is pornography and can it be art? Well, everything is possibile in this valley of tears we named the Earth...
    Bosnia... You don't have to be crazy to live here, but it helps...
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  5. #275
    arigram's Avatar
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    Considering that pornography means "the works of prostitution" and that eroticism is one of the expressions of love, for me is simple:
    pornography is pure commercial, made just to make money. Erotic art is an expression of our humanity, if money is involved, its not a priority.
    Its not really a matter of your personal beliefs or opinion on aesthetics, its a matter of the goal of the creator: if (s)he just wants to make money, (s)he is a whore.
    aristotelis grammatikakis
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  6. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggie View Post
    Peter you have no idea what I can express sexually. I just know when it is common decency to do so. I choose not to do so on the internet where the world would read it. I hope your students are of legal age. <snip>
    One person's "common decency" is another person's... oh never mind. The students in question were university students taking such classes as Contemporary Moral Issues. I hope that it's ok to talk about moral issues with them?

  7. #277
    jd callow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arigram View Post
    Considering that pornography means "the works of prostitution" and that eroticism is one of the expressions of love, for me is simple:
    pornography is pure commercial, made just to make money. Erotic art is an expression of our humanity, if money is involved, its not a priority.
    Its not really a matter of your personal beliefs or opinion on aesthetics, its a matter of the goal of the creator: if (s)he just wants to make money, (s)he is a whore.
    The purely commercial does not exclude it from being art, nor do I agree with your definition of what is pornographic. I'm pretty sure being a 'whore' does not preclude you from being an artist or your work from being art. I am really sure that 'expression(s) of our humanity' are not always beautiful to observe.

    *

  8. #278

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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post

    Even today fundamentalist religious types love to spout things like Sodom and Gomorrah stories and myths like the reason Rome fell was because of sexual decadence. So, deeply ingrained in any Judeo/Christian society or its descendents is the notion that sex is bad, demeaning, and evil.
    Michael
    To be fair, though, Christianity got this idea from Plato via Augustine. Plato's idea, as expressed for example in the Phaedo, was not so much that sex is bad, but that anything having to do with the body or corporeal nature in general is bad. It's bad, he thought, because all such things are impermanent; and the purpose of life is to rise about the corporeal and contemplate the eternal and unchanging Forms. The problem, according to Plato, is that when one tries to contemplate the eternal, the body is a constant distraction. For example, someone might be minding his own business contemplating the Form of circularity, but then a beautiful girl walks by. ... So much for circularity.

    All of this is especially funny because Augustine was quite the Lothario.

  9. #279
    arigram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd callow View Post
    The purely commercial does not exclude it from being art, nor do I agree with your definition of what is pornographic. I'm pretty sure being a 'whore' does not preclude you from being an artist or your work from being art. I am really sure that 'expression(s) of our humanity' are not always beautiful to observe.
    I won't disagree with you, but I need to clarify that any artist that makes money is not necesseraly a "whore" or his artwork pornography, but most often when the only and I mean the only goal of production is money, what you have is not of any artistic value. This comes from my observation, its not a theory or a rule. After all I stayed that is my own personal viewpoint and part of it is the literal interpretation of the two greek words.
    Considering the last line, I don't mind things that aren't beautiful. Eroticism can be crude, violent and disturbing as it is in reallity. I don't restrict art only to pleasant and happy themes, I can take a bit of ugliness.
    aristotelis grammatikakis
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  10. #280
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt View Post

    All of this is especially funny because Augustine was quite the Lothario.
    "Lord, grant me celibacy... but not yet." So saith the great sage Augustine.



 

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