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  1. #31

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    I've shot at distances far enough from the model to raise my voice to she could here me. Other times I shot close enough to feel the heat from her body. Just depends on the shot.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    'If your pictures are not good enough, you're not close enough.'

    Rober Capa
    Yes, but did he mean that in a physical sense, or a psychological sense?

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  3. #33
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    Far enough away that I am not noticed.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trask View Post
    Yes, Avedon frequently photographed with a Rolleiflex on a tripod, set up quite close to the subject. Prefocused, almost pre-framed. Avedon could speak with the subject, elicit responses, etc. even as he shot (with a cable release) and advanced the film without the subject being fully aware that the photo had been taken. You can see this, IIRC, on the American Masters show re: Avedon. (I'll confess that I can't quite figure out if he was using a Tele-Rolleiflex, or at times a regular Rollei with a close-up set. I'd tend to think the former is more likely.)

    Here are examples:

    hi trask

    i often times have taken portraits with whatever camera i am using on a tripod
    ( dslr, 35mm, 120 tlr, 4x5 and 5x7 ) have it prefocused, pre framed and
    ready with a release just as you described. it is a great way to work with a subject
    and while you converse with them, they almost forget the camera is there.
    i trained with a portrait photographer who herself was trained in the 20s/ 30s
    and she too used this for in-studio head shots and karsh esque portriats ...

    it seems that a lot of people when they make portraits don't really interact with their subjects
    they let the subject kind of do what they want, and capture what they see ... others dance with their subjects
    and the portrait is a result of the interaction between the two of them ...

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    The distance to your subject defines the perspective. The closer you get the bigger the nose.

    This is part and parcel of how the subject interacts with the background too.
    No sorry Mark, I can't agree it depends on the focal length of the lens, wheras this certainly applies to standard and wide angle lenses with medium telephoto lenses ie. 85, 90,100,135mm you can get tight head shots without distorting the facial features which is why they are considered "portrait lenses", once you get lenses longer than 135mm they have the opposite effect to large noses, and tend to flatten the features.
    Ben

  6. #36
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    [QUOTE=jnanian;1399975]hi trask

    i often times have taken portraits with whatever camera i am using on a tripod
    ( dslr, 35mm, 120 tlr, 4x5 and 5x7 ) have it prefocused, pre framed and
    ready with a release just as you described. it is a great way to work with a subject
    and while you converse with them, they almost forget the camera is there.
    i trained with a portrait photographer who herself was trained in the 20s/ 30s
    and she too used this for in-studio head shots and karsh esque portriats ...

    it seems that a lot of people when they make portraits don't really interact with their subjects
    they let the subject kind of do what they want, and capture what they see ... others dance with their subjects
    and the portrait is a result of the interaction between the two of them ...[/QUOTE

    You make a very important point here John I.M.O, too many novice portrait photographers approach portraiture as if it's still life, or landscape and instead of interacting with them and producing pictures that have a spark of intelligence and interest in their sitters expressions and eyes instead of one of boredom, and the hope that the ordeal will soon be over.
    Ben

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    No sorry Mark, I can't agree it depends on the focal length of the lens, wheras this certainly applies to standard and wide angle lenses with medium telephoto lenses ie. 85, 90,100,135mm you can get tight head shots without distorting the facial features which is why they are considered "portrait lenses", once you get lenses longer than 135mm they have the opposite effect to large noses, and tend to flatten the features.
    Ben:

    I'm with Mark on this.

    Perspective is determined solely by distance from your subject.

    The focal length of the lens and the size of your film (or sensor) determines how large the image is on the recording medium.

    If the format/film size/sensor size is first determined, you can choose a lens that allows a tight crop on the area of interest long with a good working distance.

    Your examples of 85mm through 135mm lenses apply well to 135 film cameras. But they may not be long enough for medium format cameras, and would be wide angles for LF.

    They could still be used with those larger formats, but in order to get a result with flattering perspective the photographer would need to stand far enough away for that, and the resulting image would be small on the film.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    Ben:

    I'm with Mark on this.

    Perspective is determined solely by distance from your subject.

    The focal length of the lens and the size of your film (or sensor) determines how large the image is on the recording medium.

    If the format/film size/sensor size is first determined, you can choose a lens that allows a tight crop on the area of interest long with a good working distance.

    Your examples of 85mm through 135mm lenses apply well to 135 film cameras. But they may not be long enough for medium format cameras, and would be wide angles for LF.

    They could still be used with those larger formats, but in order to get a result with flattering perspective the photographer would need to stand far enough away for that, and the resulting image would be small on the film.
    Perspective in the strictly scientific sense isn't what I was refering to but the effects of different focal lengths on the way that the human face it's shape and the relationship of one of it's feature to the other, and how they are rendered on film,
    I used reference to the focal length used on 35mm cameras because that's what the majority of people understand and use, people using larger formats could translate it to the formats they use.
    I base my remarks on more than four decades of practical portrait shooting, and if anyone want's to test their validity try shooting a close up headshot on 35mm with a 20mm lens.
    Last edited by benjiboy; 09-28-2012 at 02:07 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Ben

  9. #39
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    Yes. The guys who got too close aren't able to warn us.
    That applies to Robert Capa as well, as he died on a mine during the Indochina war.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    Perspective in the strictly scientific sense isn't what I was refering to but the effects of different focal lengths on the way that the human face it's shape and the relationship of one of it's feature to the other, and how they are rendered on film,
    I used reference to the focal length used on 35mm cameras because that's what the majority of people understand and use, people using larger formats could translate it to the formats they use.
    I base my remarks on more than four decades of practical portrait shooting, and if anyone want's to test their validity try shooting a close up headshot on 35mm with a 20mm lens.
    Ben:

    I don't disagree with you that many of us do use our experience with the common "portrait" focal lengths for 35mm film when we consider this issue. The problem that occurs, however, is that trying to covert that experience for use with other formats can be both complex and subject to error.

    I shoot several medium format formats, and in at least one case I have to add close-up accessories to my lenses to attain a close up headshot using an appropriate lens. In the end, for me it is simpler to arrive at a single, standard working distance for each intended result (full body portrait, 3/4 body portrait, upper torso and head portrait, shoulders and head portrait, close up headshot) and then choose the appropriate lens to match.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

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