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  1. #11

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    Thanks David! I've seen Jürgen Bürgen's work before, very nice, though it'd be nice if I could see more. Unfortunately no books, just a few prints. Seconds2Real looks real interesting, having only looked through it a bit so far, as does Christian Reister (who's also on Seconds2Real). Neat that Christian has a book, Alex, but 31 euros for shipping and who knows how much in duties? Yikes! Is that last link yours? If so, you've got some nice stuff, kudos to you.

  2. #12

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    Stephan Vanfleteren (Belgium) - such a good yet not widely known photographer

  3. #13

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    oh and check out Boogie (serbia) at artcoup dot com
    he has done a lot of good work, also in europa and has a few nice book publications!

  4. #14
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    August Sander!?

    He was a portrait photographers but manynof his portraits was shot from preople on the streets.

  5. #15
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by h.v. View Post
    Julhu: Tell that to Henri Cartier-Bresson, Robert Frank, etc. Street photography is not commercial photography, therefore the subjects can be published without permission as long as the purpose of it is art, even if you can gain financially from it. Just the same as taking a picture of a building or a bird. Do you need to go up to either and ask? Nope. Same thing. Or is Germany archaic like Quebec in this regard? That isn't something I'd expect from Germany.
    You got a misconception of the legal situation in Germany. It is of NO interest wether the photographer earns any money with those photos or not, not even of interest whether the photographer intends to earn money or not. Actually it is of no interest at all what the purpose of publishing is.

    There are exceptions to this rule, but basically it is not advisable to publish photographs of people on street without a a good evaluation of the situation or a consent. I myself was threatened with a legal case.

    That there are still a lot of such photos around can be explained by people not bothered or just not knowing about those photos or their legal position. Or they are detered by the costs a legal case may bring up.
    Last edited by AgX; 05-12-2013 at 06:03 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    It is of NO interest wether the photographer earns any money with those photos or not, not even of interest whether the photographer intends to earn money or not. Actually it is of no interest at all what the purpose of publishing is.
    That sums it up. From what I understand, here in Germany the privacy laws are the prevailing factor. I shoot on the street, and have been asked to delete photos that someone was in when it was digital. When it was film, I was told not to do it again. I was told by a Polizei that taking their photos on duty could be a crime, unless they consented prior. I didn't argue with him, he had 3 other officers with him, and a carload more pulled up less than a minute later.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by h.v. View Post
    That sucks that there are such harsh street photography laws in Germany,
    Maybe it sucks when you are the photographer, but see it from the other side, too. People here feel molested by being photographed without their consent. They do not want to be forced to behave every moment as if they were under scrutiny, but be unselfconscious, without fearing that any embarrassing situation is shown to all the world. Not everything that happens in public is meant to be published.
    Attitudes towards privacy and such vary from country to country (and even among different parts of society within a country), there is no universal "right" or "wrong" in these matters. IMHO it is rather rude to judge other people's traditions or attitudes, nobody can claim to have the only "right" one.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly_71 View Post
    Except that;

    a) Beat Streuli is Swiss, not German.

    And

    b) I don't think that he's ever done much (if any) street photography in Germany.

    I'm pretty sure that "traditional" street photography is nearly impossible in Germany due to rigorous privacy laws. I suppose you could do it, but you'd need to have a model release ready for each person that can be clearly seen in each photo you take. That said, I believe most German practitioners either shoot outside Germany or never show/sell their work.
    I am not German and I take a lot of street photography in Gemany: http://www.marciofaustino.com/street.html

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think there are less streets photographers in Europe for cultural reason.
    In America or UK is easy see people shooting in the streets and people don't mind. They ignore each other and don't care what they are doing.
    In Germany, France, etc, people check at what you are doing even if you are not doing anything and it may make photographers uncomfortable to have much attention to them.
    And people feel uneasy if you just try to have a casual chat while wait the bus in the bus stop. Take their pictures is even worst.

    Therefore I believe it is just cultural.

    Since I used to do a lot of street photograph in Ireland, I am so used to it that I feel comfortable to do the same in Germany. But even in Ireland where people don't care and even are happy to collaborate it took time to me build confidence to shoot in the streets. If I had to learn and start in German streets I think it would harder to me get confidence.

  9. #19
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by marciofs View Post
    In Germany, France, etc, people check at what you are doing even if you are not doing anything and it may make photographers uncomfortable to have much attention to them.
    In the city of Krefeld, Germany it was even not tolerated by local regulation just to stand in the major shopping street watching people.
    One either had to look into shop-windows or just pass.

  10. #20

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    Holy thread revival, batman.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhofmeist View Post
    Maybe it sucks when you are the photographer, but see it from the other side, too. People here feel molested by being photographed without their consent. They do not want to be forced to behave every moment as if they were under scrutiny, but be unselfconscious, without fearing that any embarrassing situation is shown to all the world. Not everything that happens in public is meant to be published.
    Attitudes towards privacy and such vary from country to country (and even among different parts of society within a country), there is no universal "right" or "wrong" in these matters. IMHO it is rather rude to judge other people's traditions or attitudes, nobody can claim to have the only "right" one.
    It sucks for everyone, not just the photographer. It isn't always an us vs. them thing. I think we can all benefit from street photography. Where would we be, what would our ideas be of New York without those iconic photos taken in the '40s, '50s, and '60s? What about HCB's France, or his trek to the Soviet Union, or Bruce Davidson's portrait of American transit in the 1980s? Street photography is a way to document our society in it's truest manner for future generations, without the posing and political-correctness that comes with consent. Without street photography, what document of 2013 will there be in 50 years? Katherine Heigl rom-coms and a billion Instagram selfies? That only tells part of the tale of our modern world. We need street photography for an honest document of our world at different times. If we get all antsy and decide to just erect massive privacy laws to prevent this vital form of communication to occur, then we're going to be worse off.

    Molested, eh? That's a bit melodramatic. Klara Yoon and Severin Koller (yes, he's Austrian, but is in Berlin often*) seem to do fine. They aren't forced to be scrutinized or critiqued by their every gesture. People are just there, doing their own thing, and I think it's important to preserve those moments for future generations. These people are not generally scrutinized themselves in my experience, because while the photo may include them, the photo itself carries meaning far beyond them. It's their image that happens to represent something greater. I could care less if so and so did such and such, I just found something about them interesting, in an unbiased, impersonal manner. It's usually the photographer that is scrutinized, not really the subjects. As for being embarrassed, well, I think as a street photographer, I have to ensure that I do not publish a photo including someone that I could see being embarrassing. I think street photographers have a moral duty to ensure that their subject's likeness is not ruined by their photo being taken. Obviously, certain street photographers may have different opinions, but that's my stance.

    Honestly, I think we sometimes take ourselves too seriously in the West. People are a lot more laissez-faire about this, it seems, in the developing world.

    * Then again, I hear Berlin is a bit of an anomaly within Germany and have heard it referred to as very un-German. People seem to be more laid back, with less rigid schedules, more emphasis on the arts, so maybe that has to do with things working out better vis a vis street photography in Berlin.
    cities & citizens - edmonton street photography (mostly), 100% film

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