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  1. #151

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    taking pictures without being noticed takes a bit of skill, but surprisingly little -- ditch the digital slr and find a small point and shoot -- Olympus XA, leica CL, something small and black and inconspicuous to start with.

    pre-focus, learn to shoot from the hip, even be looking in a different direction while you shoot.

    i've had this happen often -- I will snap a coupla shots of a homeless person, begger or something of that sort, and then the person will notice the camera, at that point smile, say hi, ask if you can shoot them, give them a buck, take a couple of posed shots (everyone loves to post) and then when they are tired of your game they will go back about their business and you can shoot them without them noticing again, but this time with their permission.

    A rolleiflex, by the way, makes a GREAT camera for this -- everyone is trained to look for big honking digital cameras, or telephones, or something. Nobody is looking for this black thing hanging at waist level that you look down into a few times.

    all about being something other than what people are used to seeing.

  2. #152
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Don't know about France but it the USA it depends on how it is published too.

    My understanding is that for news there is almost no protection for the subject, as long as the reporter/photographer is in a public space or has permission to shoot from the property owner.

    For commercial uses, advertising and stock, a release is required before publishing.

    Art though is different. So street (public) photography sold by a photographer through a gallery for display in an office or at home doesn't require a release.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  3. #153
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    There's a lot of talk about how French law regarding photography would differ from what is in place in the rest of the world. When somebody happens to actually cite a norm, it turns out that it is just like exactly in the rest of the world.

    The blog cited in post #150 ends up quoting norms whereby you can take pictures of anybody in the street without their consent (as is everywhere). Publishing follows the old common rules: commercial use needs release, non-commercial use doesn't. Not hard to grasp. And yes, derogatory use is not admitted without consent. That's more or less all there is to know, in France as elsewhere.

    The Tour Eiffel at night can be photographed and published just like any other building, and the Moulin Rouge can also be photographed just like any other building. There are laws for buildings, there are not specific laws for Tour Eiffel and Moulin Rouge.

    As a stock photographer I wrote twice to the Tour Eiffel guys - they have a web site where they say that I cannot take pictures of the tower at night - asking them to quote the norm which they think should apply. I asked that once in French and once in English, stating both times that in case of no answer I will obviously continue to take pictures of the Tower in every way and to distribute it as I see fit. Never received an answer.

    The problem is that ignorance runs so high that I know a couple of agencies that have withdrawn their pictures of the Moulin Rouge after receiving an email from the cabaret. Your rights are useless if you don't know, understand and exercise them. We'll end up living in a society governed by dogs' barks rather than laws if we don't begin understanding the basic principles of Law.

    Fabrizio

    PS The only peculiarities I know are:

    USA and Belgium: sculptors have rights on publication of pictures of sculptures also when they are on permanent exhibition (normally a sculptor would not have right on the publication of pictures of his work if it is on permanent exhibition).

    Germany: the "right of panorama" is explicitly restricted to the ground level, it does not apply to pictures taken from a higher floor (such as a picture taken from a restaurant terrace). That's according to cited jurisprudence and one always ask to wonder how correctly the sentence(s) is read or understood.

    In any case this only refers to publishers. Photographers, by and large, take pictures, maybe sell them, and it's generally fine. It's publication which crosses lines. Those are crossed by the publisher, not the photographer.
    Last edited by Diapositivo; 08-19-2012 at 06:26 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  4. #154
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    I replied similarly to a thread about taking photographs in France. When I found the actual law, it stated that it did not apply to photographs taken in a public place - just like most of the rest of the world.

    II. Criminal offences relating to violations of privacy.
    The offences which relate to violations of privacy derive from the Act of Parliament of 17 July 1970; as amended in 1994, they now constitute articles 226-1 to 226-9 of the new Penal Code. Under article 226-1 of the Penal Code it is an offence, intentionally and by means of any process whatsoever, to infringe another’s privacy:
    1. By receiving, recording or transmitting, without the consent of their author, words uttered in private or confidentially;
    2. By taking, recording or transmitting, without his or her consent, the picture of a person who is in a private place.
    In both cases, therefore, the offence requires the absence of the person’s consent, and such consent is presumed where the recording or the taking of the picture takes place in a meeting and openly and publicly. The purpose of article 226-1 is to curb the behavior of the paparazzi.
    By virtue of article 226-1.2, privacy is not protected where the violation is committed in a public place.
    Last line made bold by me.


    Steve.
    Last edited by Steve Smith; 08-20-2012 at 02:20 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    There's a lot of talk about how French law regarding photography would differ from what is in place in the rest of the world. When somebody happens to actually cite a norm, it turns out that it is just like exactly in the rest of the world.
    Possibly it does match up against the same laws in other countries, undoubtedly, I never opposed that in my post.

    For more details see here:

    http://translate.google.com/translat...%3Fid_fic%3D18


    Regarding your Eiffel photos:

    "According to the Civil Code, only the owner has the right to use his property in any form whatsoever. However, after many trials abusive jurisprudence believes that "the ownership of a property situated in the public domain and exposed to the view of all does not authorize the holder to oppose the exploitation of image of the property, but can only act against abuse and damaging the image. "
    Last edited by Felinik; 08-20-2012 at 07:58 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    http://street-photos.net/ | http://felinik.com/ | http://www.facebook.com/jf.felinik

    "The one with the most stuff when he dies wins"

  6. #156
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felinik View Post
    Regarding your Eiffel photos:

    "According to the Civil Code, only the owner has the right to use his property in any form whatsoever. However, after many trials abusive jurisprudence believes that "the ownership of a property situated in the public domain and exposed to the view of all does not authorize the holder to oppose the exploitation of image of the property, but can only act against abuse and damaging the image. "
    When I take a picture of the Eiffel tower I dont "use" it in any way. I am taking a picture of it. The Eiffel tower might well be in "private property". It would be possible to create some form of entity, "Tour Eiffel Trust", to endow it with the property of the land it stays on, and then to claim that it cannot be photographed without authorization, but it wouldn't work in preventing me from taking pictures and selling them.

    I can actually take a picture of any private house from the public land, whether or not the house itself sits on private ground or public, and make most any use I like of it, excluding commercial use and derogatory use.

    Actually this operation (creating a Trust etc.) was made with the Tour Eiffel and the Tour Eiffel "Trust" does not even try to ask payments for pictures taken during the day - which they would if the Civil Code said what the quotation above says - they only try to extract payments for pictures at night.

    Regarding the Tour Eiffel, the myth actually is that it cannot be photographed by night, because the light scheme is copyrighted. The myth was spread by the Tour Eiffel "Trust" which so claims in its web site. So what? Every building design is "copyrighted" by default as soon as it is born on paper. I cannot copy it (I cannot build an identical building without the architect's consent) but I can take pictures of it. Taking pictures is not "copying it" in any way. Neither it is "using it".

    Copyrighting a building does not prevent me from photographing it and copyrighting a light scheme of a building does not prevent me from photographing it at night.

    @ Felinik, I'm not saying this as if I disagreed with you, I refer in general to the myths regarding France and certain (especially French, but not only French) buildings. The Sidney Opera house being another famous case. If you ask a number of stock photographers you will find that most believe that the Sidney Opera house is "copyrighted" and cannot be photographed.

    Apparently people believe this is a privilege granted to only that one Opera house in the planet... or maybe they believe that in Sidney they are smart people while in the rest of the world people is dumb and don't copyright buildings.
    Last edited by Diapositivo; 08-20-2012 at 05:29 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  7. #157
    marciofs's Avatar
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    Usually people seem to don't mind when I take their shot.
    But some people sometimes looks annoyed but they never say anything.
    I never had any problem.

  8. #158

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    Shoot with a beautiful camera.. ? I go out with my FE or Rollei.. So people are very curious on the camera and come to me. It's a great segway for me to ask to take thier picture. Either a street portrait, or the activity they are engaged in.

    Todd

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddB View Post
    Shoot with a beautiful camera.. ? I go out with my FE or Rollei.. So people are very curious on the camera and come to me. It's a great segway for me to ask to take thier picture. Either a street portrait, or the activity they are engaged in.

    Todd
    Once you "ask their permission to take their picture ", and they start posing it's no longer candid photography but street portraiture.
    Ben

  10. #160

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    Yes, an older film camera can be a segue into conversation and more casual shooting.



 

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