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  1. #91
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Right now I have in front of me a book called "The Bronica Manual", by William Cheung, copyright 1989. A picture of an ETRSi is on the cover. The title, in all caps, has the word 'BRONICA' in a script similar to the Bronica script, including the the star inside the 'O', repeats it seven times on the cover, and twice more inside. The book contains detailed information on the ETR series, SQ series, and GS-1, which were in production at that time, and also describes all prior models of Bronica SLR. It also details the history of each current series and describes and compares early and late models within each series.

    I don't know if Cheung needed to receive permission from Bronica to use the Bronica star logo, but there is no indication in the book that he did. What is clear and obvious is he did not need to get permission from Bronica to publish the book, including pictures of cameras, descriptions and any critiques.

    Think also of books like "The Nikon Way" and "The Pentax Way", by Herbert Keppler. He had a right to write about those companies' products, including using their names in the titles.
    Last edited by lxdude; 07-14-2011 at 01:45 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  2. #92
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    Don't they have to show some defamation, misrepresentation or loss in order to sue? Or in other words, a reason for suing?

    You can't just say "I don't like the colour of your tractors therefore I claim $1,000,000" can you?


    Steve.
    They can file a suit, though it's up to a judge to allow it to progress. The judge can impose penalties for clearly frivolous or meritless lawsuits.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  3. #93
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    That Cheung bloke needs locking up and the key throwing away!!!

    Seriously, it's a very good book and I borrowed it from our local library when I first got a Bronica ETRS.

    I also doubt that he had permission from Bronica and I also doubt that he needed it.


    Steve.

  4. #94
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    The judge can impose penalties for clearly frivolous or meritless lawsuits.
    That's a good idea. I don't know if they can do that here but they should be able to.

    Is that penalty paid to the defendant for wasting his time or does it just go to the court/state?


    Steve.

  5. #95
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    On the subject of lawsuits and colours, I recall reading something a few years ago about mobile phone company T-mobile claiming that they owned the rights to the magenta colour and they were threatening legal action on other companies with a similar colour in their logos.

    http://www.colourlovers.com/blog/200...color-magenta/



    Steve.

  6. #96
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    I deem very likely Cheung's publisher obtained permission to use the logo in the title. Somewhere in the little print is should also be said that the Bronica logo, the star etc. are trademarks of Zenza Bronica. I don't know how "similar" is the logo to the elements used in the book maybe they didn't use exactly the logo and, considering the kind of book, entirely devoted to a Zenza Bronica model, this is acceptable.

    Use of the logo can always imply some form of sponsoring or endorsement by the logo owner. If the logo owner had not been happy with the book, he could not have complained about the book itself, but could certainly have complained about the use of the logo.

    EDIT: just to make an example, if I am a mechanic, and I feel I am very good with FIAT cars, I cannot just put the FIAT logo outside of my shop to mean that I am ready to deal with those cars. I can put it only if I am an "authorized" mechanic (authorized to claim this particular status, authorized to sport the logo).

    EDIT EDIT On the other hand, use of logos is allowed for strictly editorial purposes, so Cheung, thinking about it, might not have needed any permission. Think about the logos you find on Wikipedia... so yes, it can be used if it does not imply any kind of endorsement, I suppose.
    Last edited by Diapositivo; 07-14-2011 at 02:19 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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  7. #97
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    That's a good idea. I don't know if they can do that here but they should be able to.

    Is that penalty paid to the defendant for wasting his time or does it just go to the court/state?


    Steve.
    Yes, they can be counter sued for malecious prosecution. If they are found guilty of malecious prosecution, then they have to pay all the target's costs plus damages and fines.

    Actually, although slow, tort law works well. The usual tort law complainer is a company or industry that has been doing illegal or unethical acts as a normal part of business. So rather than clean up their act, they blame the victims and cry foal.
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  8. #98
    lxdude's Avatar
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    The penalties are usually defendant's court costs, but can include fines, which would go to the state. Jail time is possible for repeat offenders. Judges can sanction lawyers involved, as they are supposed to know better. Sanctions usually would be fines, though jail is still possible. The greatest harm to a lawyer from sanctions comes from it going into his/her record, where it can affect the lawyer's standing with the bar. Defendants can, of course, countersue.

    Court costs are technically not penalties, but remedies. Sanctions, e.g., fines and jail time, are penalties.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  9. #99
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    I know the defendant can counter sue but that's not the same as the judge imposing penalties for frivolousness as in Lxdude's post... or is it?

    EDIT: Mr Lxdude answered at the same time as I wrote this. I assume a US judge can impose penalties without the defendant counter suing then?


    Steve.

  10. #100
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    EDIT: just to make an example, if I am a mechanic, and I feel I am very good with FIAT cars, I cannot just put the FIAT logo outside of my shop to mean that I am ready to deal with those cars. I can put it only if I am an "authorized" mechanic (authorized to claim this particular status, authorized to sport the logo).

    On the other hand, use of logos is allowed for strictly editorial purposes, so Cheung, thinking about it, might not have needed any permission. Think about the logos you find on Wikipedia...
    You are right about the Fiat logo as that would be mis-representation. Mr Cheung does not need permission to write about Bronicas as he is just documenting the facts as he found them. If he was unlucky and had a Bronica camera which jammed up every time he tried to wind the film on, he could write about that too because he is just stating the facts (wouldn't be such a good book though!).

    Thinking about it, he probably did have permission from Bronica and possibly even help from them but I still don't believe he necessarily needed it.


    Steve.



 

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