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  1. #101
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    I deem very likely Cheung's publisher obtained permission to use the logo in the title. Somewhere in the little print is should also be said that the Bronica logo, the star etc. are trademarks of Zenza Bronica. I don't know how "similar" is the logo to the elements used in the book maybe they didn't use exactly the logo and, considering the kind of book, entirely devoted to a Zenza Bronica model, this is acceptable.

    Use of the logo can always imply some form of sponsoring or endorsement by the logo owner. If the logo owner had not been happy with the book, he could not have complained about the book itself, but could certainly have complained about the use of the logo.

    EDIT: just to make an example, if I am a mechanic, and I feel I am very good with FIAT cars, I cannot just put the FIAT logo outside of my shop to mean that I am ready to deal with those cars. I can put it only if I am an "authorized" mechanic (authorized to claim this particular status, authorized to sport the logo).

    On the other hand, use of logos is allowed for strictly editorial purposes, so Cheung, thinking about it, might not have needed any permission. Think about the logos you find on Wikipedia...
    I looked at the front cover, back cover, title page, all the small print, the introduction and the index, and found nothing. The book was printed in England, but I would think it could not be sold anywhere it would violate copyright or trademark laws.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  2. #102
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    I know the defendant can counter sue but that's not the same as the judge imposing penalties for frivolousness as in Lxdude's post... or is it?
    The defendant can sue for damages. The judge can impose penalties on a plaintiff at the time the original suit is thrown out, with or without a countersuit by the defendant. The judge has considerable latitude in what sanctions can be imposed. The judge can also toss a countersuit or allow it to go forward.

    EDIT: Mr Lxdude answered at the same time as I wrote this. I assume a US judge can impose penalties without the defendant counter suing then?
    Yes.
    Last edited by lxdude; 07-14-2011 at 03:41 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    I looked at the front cover, back cover, title page, all the small print, the introduction and the index, and found nothing. The book was printed in England, but I would think it could not be sold anywhere it would violate copyright or trademark laws.
    It doesn't really matter if it does or doesn't violate any copyright or trademark laws. If Bronica are (were) happy with it existing then it's no one else's business to complain.

    It is such a comprehensive and well written and presented book that I'm sure they were more than happy with it being published.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  4. #104
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    I looked at the front cover, back cover, title page, all the small print, the introduction and the index, and found nothing. The book was printed in England, but I would think it could not be sold anywhere it would violate copyright or trademark laws.
    You should check all the book. The colophon can be anywhere, even in the very middle Even if Bronica was happy and gave explicit written permission to the editor, it would be quite abnormal that they didn't ask a note stating that the Zenza Bronica trademarks belong to Zenza-Bronica-Kogyu-Nasai-Masaruti-whatever. (not very good in Japanese I admit).

    EDIT -Kogaku- somewhere could be added I think.
    Last edited by Diapositivo; 07-14-2011 at 04:24 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
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  5. #105
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    It doesn't really matter if it does or doesn't violate any copyright or trademark laws. If Bronica are (were) happy with it existing then it's no one else's business to complain.

    It is such a comprehensive and well written and presented book that I'm sure they were more than happy with it being published.


    Steve.
    I agree. But if he had to get any kind of permission and had not, they might have sent him a letter informing him of that and inviting him to do so. Our courts here have said trademarks must be vigorously protected, which is one reason companies go to such lengths to do so.

    I'm sure they were quite pleased with the quality and tone of the book. Indeed written and presented well.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    Yes, they can be counter sued for malecious prosecution. If they are found guilty of malecious prosecution, then they have to pay all the target's costs plus damages and fines.

    Actually, although slow, tort law works well. The usual tort law complainer is a company or industry that has been doing illegal or unethical acts as a normal part of business. So rather than clean up their act, they blame the victims and cry foal.
    As I understand it most tort law is state specific, so any rule concerning it will vary from (US) state to state.

    And "prosecution" generally refers to a criminal law or similar proceeding, not a civil claim in tort for damages. So damages for "malicious prosecution" could not flow from a civil claim.

    At least up here a counter-suit for damages might include a claim for costs, including court costs and increased costs. The availability of such costs will vary with each jurisdiction, according to that jurisdiction's rules.

    If a claim is made that has no standing in law, an application can be made to have it dismissed early in the proceeding. In addition, even if the claim could have a legal basis, the factual situation may indicate that the claim is without any potential merit (in my jurisdiction the phrase used is "frivolous and vexatious") and another, different application can be made to have it dismissed early in the proceeding.

    The first such application requires a purely legal decision, and therefore little or no evidence will be referred to. The second type of application requires a decision that involves a mixture of law and fact, and therefore at least some evidence will need to be be referred to. As such, it is a more complex application, and may result in a judge referring the issue to a full trial, especially if issues of credibility arise.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    They can file a suit, though it's up to a judge to allow it to progress. The judge can impose penalties for clearly frivolous or meritless lawsuits.
    And for obviously frivolous suits it would be tossed out immediately.

    But the trick to winning the game is to have a claim that is "plausible" even it is wrong and the money to cowering the opponent. There's no looser pays rule.

    In real life, a suit between neighbors Fred and George about damage caused by or to one or the others cow will likely end in an equitable decision. Nobody has any real money, so no Herculean battle occurs.

    A suit between Microsoft and Google likely results in a stalemate.

    A suit by an out of work laborer against an industrial giant is going to net millions to a law firm, and perhaps something to the worker or perhaps a class. This regardless of the facts of the case and who is right or wrong.

    A suit by an industrial giant against someone small with some valuable item - perhaps a competing product - the deep pockets usually win. This is not to imply that all corporate lawyers are corrupt.

    In the overall scheme in the USA the rules favor the rich, not the right.
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  8. #108

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    Don't they have Traffic cams in Florida? Surely that is not just one of those Crazy California Things. Come to think of it, one cannot go anywhere these days without having ones picture taken. Every store has security cameras. Try asking your local 7-11 store assistant manager for all the frames that contain your face. Welcome to the 21st century! The lady who demanded that you delite her ,undoubtably beautiful, image is stuck somewhere in the 1990s! That was long long ago, even for an old fert like me.

    Bill

  9. #109
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    You should check all the book. The colophon can be anywhere, even in the very middle Even if Bronica was happy and gave explicit written permission to the editor, it would be quite abnormal that they didn't ask a note stating that the Zenza Bronica trademarks belong to Zenza-Bronica-Kogyu-Nasai-Masaruti-whatever. (not very good in Japanese I admit).

    EDIT -Kogaku- somewhere could be added I think.
    The colophon appears on the page facing the table of contents, and says nothing about Bronica trademarks or permission. I've read the book through, and have not seen anything.
    BTW, I said the Bronica script with the star on the cover is similar.
    I just looked at a manual for the EC-TL model, and it is identical to the script with star on the cover of that.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  10. #110
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbsc View Post
    A suit by an out of work laborer against an industrial giant is going to net millions to a law firm.
    Not if the industrial giant wins the case. They won't get much from the out of work labourer.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.



 

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