Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,928   Posts: 1,585,211   Online: 785
      
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14
  1. #1
    ted_smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    uk
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    396
    Images
    1

    Protecting or Proofing 35mm print sets from scanning and dodgy re-printing

    I've shot a couple of weddings now. Having passed over the 6x4 proofs (which looked really good by the way) the Brides first question was "Am I able to scan them in or are they copyrighted?". Legal issues and the fact that I had standard low res scans on CD anyway aside, how are photographers preventing customers simply scanning in your prints and then trying to print off their own versions using crumby domestic printers or "mini-lab" printers at Walmart\ASDA to avoid paying you cash for proper enlargements from negatives? I have done my best on all occasions to explain how a scan from a print that is then printed will never ever look anyway near as good as a proper pro print from negative but still, I am keen to know for future ref.

    I asked my lab if they can add a "Proof Only" watermark and they said they can't - they can only do that when printing digital files with an embedded watermark.

    I guess my overall concern is, in the digital age, how are us film photographers protecting our professional product and professionalism and preventing crumby low res scans appearing in frames in our customers homes or workplace? (You can imagine it can't you - a colleague of a customer wants to see a sample of your work and your former customer shows them a dodgy print of their own scan!!)
    Ted Smith Photography
    Hasselblad 501CM...my 2nd love.

  2. #2
    Steve Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Ryde, Isle of Wight
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    8,715
    Images
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by ted_smith View Post
    Am I able to scan them in or are they copyrighted
    Unfortunately, both. They have copyright and they can be scanned.

    If people are happy with the poor quality they can get by scanning and printing themselves, that's what they are going to do. I don't think you can do much about it other than to charge enough to cover the time you have spent working.

    Especially with digital, I can see the business model for weddings changing so that the up front fee includes transfer of all rights to the customer as once they have files, you no longer have control.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  3. #3
    MattKing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Delta, British Columbia, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    12,953
    Images
    60
    Even in the old days, a few people would try to get copy prints made from the proofs at their local photolab. That is one of the reasons that some pro labs imprint copyright warnings on the back of every proof.

    There really is nothing you can do, practically, to eliminate this. If people are prepared to accept a lousy copy in order to save a few bucks, they'll do it.

    That being said, it sometimes helps to include a "free" small print with a more expensive enlargement.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  4. #4
    fotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SE WI- USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,230
    First, get some software that allows you to display your proofs on line without the ability to download or copy the photo. Double check the software because a lot of them don't really stop a person with some computer skills. Then, impose your copyright on the photos. Allow them to pick a set number that was included in your Package price. Another words, they can buy more photos than the package but they are buying X number, as part of the package, period.
    Items for sale or trade at www.Camera35.com

  5. #5
    Ian Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    West Midlands, UK, and Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    16,435
    Images
    148
    You could get a rubber stamp made and hand stamp each print as "Proof" or "Proof print".

    Ian

  6. #6
    Akki14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    1,873
    Images
    210
    Or get an embosser that says PROOF PRINT on it? Ink is one thing, embossing is more like "watermark" in my mind. You could put it more than once to "ruin" it without ruining the picture too badly if you're viewing it in your hands, if you see what I mean.
    ~Heather
    oooh shiny!
    http://www.stargazy.org/

  7. #7
    fotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SE WI- USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,230
    Ink or embossing a lot of proofs is definitely an analog solution to a modern technology problem. I wonder how long it would take to do a 100 pllus prints. Ink would be removable, emobsing would not, but a lot more work.

    But, since we are using modern technology to discus the problem, why not solve it with modern technology. I guess then, finding a printer to incorporate it into the prints would be an alternative.
    Items for sale or trade at www.Camera35.com

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    62
    As a person that works in a photolab, I can promise you that most walmart type quick labs often ignore any copyright marks on the image, once customers, grown adults, start screaming at the 17 year old employees, they just print off some crummy prints for them to make them go away. And thats IF the lab clerk even checks or cares.

    There is no solution other then to show them the quality available when its left in your hands, and maybe contrasting that to something done from a quick lab from a crummy scan.

  9. #9
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    17,487
    Images
    20
    I don't think it would take that long to emboss a few hundred proof prints, particularly with an electric embosser.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Coquitlam, BC
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    353
    My current business model (still in the works) includes a set of 4X6 prints and I scan all the photos as high res as I can on my Epson - good enough for 11x14 prints for 35mm and probably 20x24 for medium format. (I should note that I currently shoot digital + film side by side at the moment).

    I make the suggestion that I would prefer to do the printing for them (or atleast give them suggestions to get better quality than photocopying. LOL), but I ultimately leave it up to the client to do what they want. I know that this means that quality may suffer if they send to un-color corrected, different RGB, only 4-bit, 72 dpi printing place but I figure that my high quality 4x6 prints can be a reference for a good print. If they want a print enlargements, I offer to do it for them and just charge a fee.

    I more or less follow a model of frontloading the service fee to cover my general costs and leave the client to decide on enlargements. The purpose of the 4x6 prints is to show them what the photo *should* look like, but more importantly to give them a set of prints - my gift to them. As they say on Inside Analog Photo - You don't have a photo unless you have a print!

    To be honest, this model of business is still a work in progress for me. Will see how it goes in the upcoming months!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin