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  1. #171
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by himself View Post
    edit:
    and isn't the devil in the nuance?
    No, not really in the context of off the shelf material, like film and paper's contribution to the effect. Photographic materials and their response to certain inputs are knowns. They are available to anyone who wants to learn them. Follow the directions and you get a very specific result. Even modifications to the process can be accurately predicted.

    The nuance involved is more about being able to follow all the steps in the instructions well.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  2. #172

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    Yeah, sure ... just go buy a cookbook, then get the correct list of ingredients at the supermarket or
    whatever, and you can open a gourmet restaurant??? The whole game is one of nuances!

  3. #173
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    Yeah, sure ... just go buy a cookbook, then get the correct list of ingredients at the supermarket or
    whatever, and you can open a gourmet restaurant??? The whole game is one of nuances!
    One of practice, learning, experience, and work.

    I started and ran a studio for a while, it took real effort to learn/design the set ups and get things right. Once done though there were literally x's on the floor to place everything and predetermined settings for all the lights and the camera.

    I could probably dig out my old notes, measure out the spots and remark the floor, set the lights and camera per the recipe and without so much as one meter reading, get a perfect exposure on the first shot.

    I don't claim to be above average or highly nuanced in this respect. This is simply the norm for production studio work.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  4. #174

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    Well then, you learned some nuances of lighting. For those of us who shoot mainly outdoors, the
    lighting changes all the time, and we have to acquire an instinct for it, one for which the rules seem
    to change with virtually every different film, dev, paper, and paper dev combination. That's what makes it fun. But it's a helluva lot easier when good films and papers are available. I remember that
    season when Seagull, Brilliant, and Galerie papers all were unavailable, and it sure took a lot more
    luck to get certain "nuances" in the print. Then another generation of premium papers came along,
    and today it's rather easy, esp considering the vast improvement in VC papers. But I never know
    for sure until that final print is fully dry. Tiny differences can amount to the distinction between a
    good print and a great one.

  5. #175
    Nicholas Lindan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    Yeah, sure ... just go buy a cookbook, then get the correct list of ingredients at the supermarket or
    whatever, and you can open a gourmet restaurant???
    If only most restaurants would be that good. I'd patronize a place that just did an excellent job with Julia Child recipes.

    I stopped by 'one of the best restaurants in Cleveland' and the daily special was Roasted Pig Ears. Creativity isn't the end-all.
    DARKROOM AUTOMATION
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  6. #176
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Lindan View Post
    Creativity isn't the end-all.
    True, but it does have a way of getting new things started.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  7. #177

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    I think creativity is probably the end-all, otherwise what's the point?

    by the way, I have a mate and brother that are both head chefs in two different "gourmet" restaurants and both buy their ingredients from supermarkets... not really sure what that says, but there you go

  8. #178
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    Well then, you learned some nuances of lighting. For those of us who shoot mainly outdoors, the
    lighting changes all the time, and we have to acquire an instinct for it, one for which the rules seem
    to change with virtually every different film, dev, paper, and paper dev combination. That's what makes it fun. But it's a helluva lot easier when good films and papers are available. I remember that
    season when Seagull, Brilliant, and Galerie papers all were unavailable, and it sure took a lot more
    luck to get certain "nuances" in the print. Then another generation of premium papers came along,
    and today it's rather easy, esp considering the vast improvement in VC papers. But I never know
    for sure until that final print is fully dry. Tiny differences can amount to the distinction between a
    good print and a great one.
    I wouldn't call what I described as learning the nuances, the basics or the broad strokes maybe.

    I do agree that there are things that must change when we switch one material for another but, every black and white film and paper available today can produce the silvery/glowy look.

    Sure, beyond that basic function, adjustments can be made to suit one's preferences. Your idea of a great print and mine may be hugely different though.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  9. #179
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Lindan View Post
    ...and the daily special was Roasted Pig Ears.
    Did you try it? It's delicious!
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

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