FP4 8x10 sheet film base side anomalies in Jobo 3005

[Jordan.K]

I just processed some Ilford fp4 8x10 sheet film in a Jobo 3005 and the base side is getting some weird drying marks and is riddled with scratches as well. The marks look like some type of effect from liquid being trapped between two smooth surfaces (Jobo wall and base side of film) and causing some type flaw. I presoaked, used xtol, normal stop bath, and normal fixer. Washed for 30 mintues and did a final rinse in distilled water. The same thing happened with HP5 a few years back, so I stuck with Tri-X. Is Ilford's base not all that compatible with the function of the Jobo drums? I never get or got this problem with Kodak. Please chime in. Thanks.

[JLP]

I have had the exact same problem with both FP4+ and Delta 100 but never found out what the problem was. Did test at least two different fixers and developers but nothing changed. Tried low and high speed settings on the Jobo but no change.
90% of my 8x10 film use is Kodak so i moved on.
Will on occasion use some FP4+ and HP5+ but not for anything serious.

[Vaughn]

Are you using a hardening fix? If you are, switching to a non-hardening fix will probably solve your problem -- it did for me.

I use FP4+ in the 3005 all the time now with zero problems. Great film!

Vaughn

[Jordan.K]

I am using a non-hardening fixer, so that rules that out I suppose. Good to know someone experienced this with the Ilford films as well.

[Vaughn]

Dang, thought I had it nailed for you.

What speed does the drum turn -- and do you reverse it?

My workflow...

I use a 3 to 5 minute rinse, Ilford PQ Universal developer, Kodak Stop Bath, Kodak Rapid Fixer (without the Part B -- the hardener), a rinse (two times), Kodak HCA, then remove the film for washing (on hangers). I reverse the drum every minute - the auto reverse on the motor base did not allow for enough rotation of the drum before it reversed, due to the greater diameter of the 3005. I disconnected the auto-reverse mechanism.

I use a liter of chemistry, except sometimes only 500ml of stop bath. I wonder if this might help you if you are now use significantly less.

Vaughn

[Jordan.K]

I tried putting the film in a tray to presoak and then gently place them in the drum which was full of water thinking that maybe it was the initial contact of the film, water, and Jobo that happens during my normal process. It changed very little and there are still a ton scratches and strange clear blotches on the base side. All the chemistry is fresh and mixed just prior to using. This is the exact thing that happened to me with HP5 and I simply feel that no matter how careful I am that the base side is prone to scratches and whatnot. I want to like Ilford films, but they have been nothing but a headache thus far. Any further suggestions will continue to be appreciated. I need to get this figured out so that I can get back to making work.

[Vaughn]

Tray develop.

Not what you wanted to hear...

[Sal Santamaura]

...Any further suggestions will continue to be appreciated. I need to get this figured out so that I can get back to making work.

Sacrifice a sheet, i.e. take it out of the box unexposed and unprocessed, then examine in light. If base scratches exist, you've a manufacturing defect. Contact Ilford and report; I assure you they will make good.

[johnielvis]

it's the film--same problems myself--tray is the way with ilford--so i try not to use it since I like the drums....this seems to plague the larger sheets more than anything else--if you're having problems like this with 8x10...11x14 sheets will be even worse--if not stuck to the tube---the larger sheets have problems getting the water back there to wash out the dyes---a presoak with a LOT of water (to provide pressure to get it behind the sheets) helps a lot--this takes care of the dye problem, but you'll still get rib marks on the back from the drum ribs (large sheets)....scratches also increase for the larger sheets since the pressure forces are greater, this causes more force to scratch the film---you'll never get rid of the scratches problem--things move around in a moving drum...if there is relative motion between the film and the drum you will scratch it...just get used to them or use kodak film--that's what I've been doing to eliminate the problems.

don't bother checking one from the box---the scratch are from the processing forces acting on the film...a similar pressure on 8x10 is 4x larger than on 4x5 sheets---so if you do 4x5 with no problems, the "no problems" doesn't scale up to larger sheets--the forces are much larger

the biggest problem is getting the water/chemicals in back of the film....start with a standing pre-soak--put the tube on the side and fill it to the top with water---the water pressure will push the film away from the drum as it fills....this will dissolve away the backing....fill again to rinse...1x 2x...till all the dye is gone.

scratches....no help...just be gentle I guess

[Simon R Galley]

Interesting post,

We have used Jobo processors for many years and fully auto processors in QC and we do not get issues, we also do not have any QC's for base scratches of any type on any film sheet or otherwise.

We DO NOT recommend pre-soaking any of our film products, in saying that that would not cause or add to this issue as described unless it was an very,very long pre-soak.

Jordan.K : Return an example of the film exhibiting the problem, along with batch number off the box and all the details and I will have it examined and a reply sent to you.

Simon.R.Galley,
HARMAN technology Limited,
Ilford Way,
Mobberley,
Knutsford.
CHESHIRE
WA16 7JL
United Kingdom.



When you buy ILFORD products you have the resource of our technical service, if you see an issue that you cannot figure out speak to us.