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  1. #11
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Well I can't see any possible reason not to mix half as much stock, since you're going to dilute it further before use. Diluting the replenisher right before use MIGHT be different. Some developers change activity after mixing (like D76) but I doubt this applies to LPD. When I run out of the current liquid concentrate I may try that with my unopened powder when I mix it.

    The concentrate bottle also says to write for info on replenishment. Do their instructions say anything about replenishing it? It really seems you should just be able to use more concentrate as long as you dilute it correctly, since that's all you're doing, albeit in two stages.

  2. #12
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    The only thing I would be worried about is the replenishment rate. It's based on a gallon of working solution, and could be different if you only use a half gallon. You might get fairly large fluctuations in activity that way.

    But why not try it? I print enough that I spend all of the replenisher before it goes bad, which is very well within the six month mark; I probably use a gallon kit every 8-12 weeks.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  3. #13
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    The only thing I would be worried about is the replenishment rate. It's based on a gallon of working solution, and could be different if you only use a half gallon. You might get fairly large fluctuations in activity that way.

    But why not try it? I print enough that I spend all of the replenisher before it goes bad, which is very well within the six month mark; I probably use a gallon kit every 8-12 weeks.
    Well yeah, I just figure you cut the replenishment rate accordingly.

    But now that I re-read it, I'm not sure what this means:

    "Add 300ml per qty 30 8x10 prints, and top off the working solution after each printing session as necessary with replenisher."

    Does that mean, as it says, to add 300ml of replenisher for each 30 prints AND top off the container to a gallon? That would seem to introduce a huge variable in the topping off. How much (stronger) replenisher you add would depend on how well you drain your prints, but I suppose for the usual "drain until it drips not runs" (eight seconds for an 8x10 held corner down!) it would be close enough.

    But yeah, that 10ml per 8x10 back into the gallon would make it different with a half gallon.

    I could just forget about this. I print little enough and it's cheap enough that I don't care about making it less expensive. My only goal here would be consistency. The label says not to worry about the color change, and my prints don't seem to vary so far, but every time I pour the working solution back into the tray I wonder if I should toss it and start over, or not.

    I wish I had time to use a gallon every 8-12 weeks. Heck, I wish I had time to use up a quart of concentrate every 8 weeks.

    It occurs to me I have time to post online, but that doesn't require set up and clean up time and can be done a bit at a time in between other things, quite different.

  4. #14
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    It just means that you add 300ml of replenisher for every qty 30 8x10 prints (or equivalent), and then at the end of the printing session, top off the storage container (as needed, it should say).

    It does introduce some variability, but keeps the developer from getting oxidized. If you use less than 30 8x10 sheets in a printing session, just top it up at the end. I'm not sure it's hugely critical. It has worked really well for me whether I make one print or ten prints. Activity is really stable.

    If you print very rarely, why not just mix LPD gallon kits with boiled distilled water and keep the stock solution? Store it in 500ml amber glass jars that are completely full, and just use one up each time you print. If you must, after you dilute it 1:1, store the working solution between printing sessions too for even greater economy. But to me it's penny wise and nickel stupid, because the expensive part is the paper...

    The rationale for me is that I love the replenished developer. It seems that the left over bromides help the prints look nicer and more according to my tastes. It's a bit softer than straight 1:2 developer, the highlights are a little softer, and the shadows seem to carry a bit more detail. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's what I'm used to since a few years now, and am happy to just continue with it, since my negs are tuned to my whole process now.

    - Thomas


    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Well yeah, I just figure you cut the replenishment rate accordingly.

    But now that I re-read it, I'm not sure what this means:

    "Add 300ml per qty 30 8x10 prints, and top off the working solution after each printing session as necessary with replenisher."

    Does that mean, as it says, to add 300ml of replenisher for each 30 prints AND top off the container to a gallon? That would seem to introduce a huge variable in the topping off. How much (stronger) replenisher you add would depend on how well you drain your prints, but I suppose for the usual "drain until it drips not runs" (eight seconds for an 8x10 held corner down!) it would be close enough.

    But yeah, that 10ml per 8x10 back into the gallon would make it different with a half gallon.

    I could just forget about this. I print little enough and it's cheap enough that I don't care about making it less expensive. My only goal here would be consistency. The label says not to worry about the color change, and my prints don't seem to vary so far, but every time I pour the working solution back into the tray I wonder if I should toss it and start over, or not.

    I wish I had time to use a gallon every 8-12 weeks. Heck, I wish I had time to use up a quart of concentrate every 8 weeks.

    It occurs to me I have time to post online, but that doesn't require set up and clean up time and can be done a bit at a time in between other things, quite different.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  5. #15
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    That's pretty much what I do. It may seem penny wise dollar foolish (or whatever the inflation adjusted saying is) but one thing I always hated about Dektol was pouring out the working solution after making a half dozen prints or whatever. So far it just keeps working and working. The only "problem" is how to judge when it might not be so good anymore!

  6. #16
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    That's pretty much what I do. It may seem penny wise dollar foolish (or whatever the inflation adjusted saying is) but one thing I always hated about Dektol was pouring out the working solution after making a half dozen prints or whatever. So far it just keeps working and working. The only "problem" is how to judge when it might not be so good anymore!
    LOL - thanks for correcting my suffering colloquialisms... I'm an immigrant and sometimes don't get it quite right.

    I hear you about Dektol, it's frustrating to dump it all after only one printing session. I'm not sure that you have to, but it you do, it's definitely frustrating...
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  7. #17
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    I've been able to re-use Dektol if you pour a lightly used working solution into a bottle, squeeze the air out, and use it the next day. Anything longer than that, or if it's in the tray very long, and it turns black. It still has some activity but it's clearly not very good. Horrible tray life is my biggest complaint about it (it also stains much worse than LPD - metol versus phenidone I think.)

  8. #18

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    I don't understand the knock on Dektol. It yields great results and is very inexpensive. I mix a gallon of stock solution and then dilute per instructions 1:2 when ready to use (12 oz stock to 24 oz water). Often I re-use the diluted solution over two or three printing sessions, say 30 to 40 8 x 10's total within 5 days. Then it gets tossed. I do not see any degradation in performance and I suspect it could be stretched much longer. I just spent about $.70 since I get 10 working strength loads out of a gallon of stock. That is about the cost of one piece of 8 x 10 paper! No need to make it last forever.

  9. #19
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Not knocking Dektol, Loren. Don't even know a lot about it, other than giving more contrast than I need for my LPD tuned negatives.
    The economy thing, well both Dektol and LPD are inexpensive enough that it doesn't matter.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #20
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    I'll knock Dectol. I hate the stuff. YMMV of course. It works fine but leaves black mess anywhere it touches and has lousy tray life. I'm still printing with the same bottle of working strength LPD I mixed in October. Try that with Dectol. Of course it may not matter to you. It's less the cost and more having to mix a new batch of working strength developer every session and a new gallon of powder stock much more often.

    Of course many people like it and that's fine with me. That's why they make different developers.

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