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Thread: Pre-soak

  1. #11
    clayne's Avatar
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    I just do it so I can play with all of the dyes upon pouring the pre-soak out.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  2. #12
    Rick A's Avatar
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    Reread PE's post (post #3).
    Rick A
    Argentum aevum
    BTW: the big kid in my avatar is my hero, my son, who proudly serves us in the Navy. "SALUTE"

  3. #13

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    There is another reason to pre-soak : and it's probably just aesthetic : Rollei and Adox films have a ghastly green or blue anti-halation dye , which would turn my replenished Xtol an indescribable hue if I didn't presoak.These manufacturers recommend presoak,for whatever reason.
    Since I like to keep an eye on the physical condition of the developer,which the dye would obscure.
    With Ilford,Kodak or Fuji films I don't bother.

    Could PE comment on whether A/H dyes have ANY effect on the chemistry ?

  4. #14

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    hi cliveh

    the thing about pre soaking is that sometimes it is useful
    and allows the gelatin to swell before putting the film in developer
    just the same, it sometimes it adds trouble and causes streaking and uneven development.
    so, if you don't do it, and you haven't encountered any trouble with your development methods
    i wouldn't worry about it ...

    the AH dyes are coated on the film so there isn't blowback-flare when making exposures
    it is the same reasons why the pressure plate or back of a film holder against the film or inside the camera
    is black, to reduce light going through the film and back onto it after bouncing around the inside of the camera.

    if you want to have some fun, save your pre soak water, and your developer.
    pour all the blue black dye in your developer beaker .. and watch as it vanishes ..
    it seems that some developer are designed to absorb the AH dye and not loose potency ...
    so, if you don't pre soak, the dye is absorbed into your developer and probably not carried into your stop or fixer ( without you realizing it).

    i always pre soak out of habit, but when i forget, or just don't do it, i don't worry about it ...

    have fun !
    john
    im empty, good luck

  5. #15

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    For the first 20 years of my film processing, some for museum archiving, I never pre-soaked and never had any problems associated with not doing it. Now I pre-soak when using Presycol developer to get the film to @24C, and because it is recommended for semi stand development to promote more even initial development, but I'm not sure how substantiated this is (there are counter arguments I believe). Again, no problems doing this, so my input is to do what you think best. On a firmer basis, it is possibly most useful in promoting consistent developer temperature: as a 20C. solution poured onto a 16C. film tank, for example, would affect standard development time. Hence, if your equipment is cold and you don't pre-soak it is probably a godd idea to take the developer temperature after a minute or two in the tank and possibly adjust development time. If you are happy with your results, fine, but there is usually room for a little fine tuning that may have happy consequences.
    Regards, Mark Walker.

  6. #16
    eddie's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if it matters either way, but I've been doing it for over 30 years, so I see no reason to stop now. I started doing it before I had a Jobo, and have continued my routine, with the Jobo. I get nice, even negatives from my workflow. Others get nice, even development without a pre-soak.
    John- I've only seen problems with streaking and uneven development if the pre-soak is too short. I used 2-3 minutes prior to the Jobo, and 5 minutes with it.

  7. #17
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    The dyes are not supposed to hurt development and are designed to wash out in the process. The problem is that the developer, stop and fix can become colored from these dyes, and if you run a mix of films and replenish, then every solution can become murky brown.

    I suggest that you use what works. However, a simple test for you. Take a sheet of clean white absorbent paper of about 90 - 100 # weight and just submerge it into water. Watch how uniform the wetting is and whether bubbles rise from the paper. Now, take a piece of film and dip it into a beaker of running tap water and watch the surface of the film for bubbles and wetting. These two simple tests will show you the wetting properties of porous materials, the effect of entrained air, and the effect of air in ordinary tap water. BTDT!

    Jobo sells a little device to break up small bubbles and cause them to rise. This improves washing. So, watch your wash water too. You can see your film covered with bubbles! Each bubble is preventing efficient washing! Same thing, different step of the process.

    PE

  8. #18
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    I have pre-soaked b&w film since I started processing over 50 years ago, except with developers for which it is not recommended.

    One such developer is Diafine. They specifically say not to presoak because it will interfere with take-up of Part A into the emulsion.

    - Leigh
    “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” - Plato

  9. #19
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    Yes, you should never pre-soak with a divided developer.

    PE

  10. #20
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    Interesting comments. I suppose as I use D76 1:1 and discard after use, it has not been a problem.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

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