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Thread: Pre-soak

  1. #21

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    I tray develop sheet film. Without a pre-soak, the sheets will often adhere to each other and take a looooong time to soak apart. I don't need that happening in the developer! It happens on occasion in the pre-soak if I don't let the previous sheet soak long enough, but then I can take the time needed to separate them without worrying about uneven development. I don't see this reason above, so let's add it to the great reasons PE listed.

    I don't see how pre-soaking film before development can cause streaking and unevenness as someone above mentioned. Just the opposite would be my impression. Nor do I see many viable arguments against using a pre-soak that have been substantiated. Of course, with divided developers, where one wants the emulsion to take up developing agents as rapidly and fully as possible, a pre-soak makes no sense, especially when you remember that the vast majority of the actual development only takes place in the B-solution.

    I use staining developers, which are rather finicky when it comes to unevenness; I need all the help I can get to have the developer infuse into the emulsion at an even rate. I believe that pre-soaking, and transferring a completely saturated emulsion into the developer aids this, since the exchange of water and developer happens more slowly and evenly and the inevitable unevenness of immersion is therefore minimized.

    Best,

    Doremus

    www.DoremusScudder.com

  2. #22
    Athiril's Avatar
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    I pre-soak all colour film. And most B&W film, some specifically says not to (like some Rollei films such as ATP), I'll pre-soak all films intended for stand development and short development times (gives me a bit more buffer zone in time to get the lid on and starting my initial agitation).

  3. #23
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    I sometimes read on APUG posts about pre-soaking films with water prior to development. I have never ever done this, can someone explain what am I missing?
    noyhing ¡presoaking is n extra step with little or no benefit and comes with it's on set of problems. i wouldn' consider it unless you sre dealing with extremely short developib times <4 minutes.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  4. #24
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Like Ralph I think a pre-soak is an unnecessary step for most processing, it is beneficial when processing colour materials at well above room level temperatures (38ºC) in bringing the tank, spiral and film up to temperature.

    I've never seen a pre-soak recommended by manufacturers for B&W films, and with some developers that use the tanning action of certain developing agents a pre-soak is best avoided. Prescysol which is a Pyrocat clone would fall into that category.

    Ian

  5. #25
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    Kodak recommended a presoak for Pan Matrix Film before entering the tanning developer.

    Sheets of film sticking together would certainly be a real problem. I don't tray develop sheet film, I use film hangers in hard rubber tanks. Thus my sheets are separated by the metal hangers.

    PE

  6. #26
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    I know this subject has been beat to death ... but .. I've pre soaked for 50 (yep, fifty) years. It's just part of my routine. Same reasons as Rick A. Never a problem.
    charlie

  7. #27
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    I never pre-soaked before I got a Jobo. Jobo recommends a 5 minute presoak so I use it. With most films and developers it pretty closely compensates for the continuous agitation giving similar times as for inversion. Plus it stabilizes the tank temperature. I run my B&W at 24C as recommended for T-Max RS developer but also use the same temp for others as it's high enough not to need to cool the solutions and the CPE heater can stabilize them.

  8. #28

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    Just a note to Ian. I'm not contending the effects of pre-soak, but I started to do it with Prescysol following the specific recommendation in the instructions, so there must be divided opinion/experience for staining developer. I never adopted pre-soaking in other developer - partly because, as you state I never came across film manufacturers literature that suggests it as a necessary step - and, although I tend to follow manufacturers recommendations, I will try Prescysol without it to see if there are any differences to the result.
    Regards, Mark Walker.

  9. #29
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    I tray develop sheet film. Without a pre-soak, the sheets will often adhere to each other and take a looooong time to soak apart. I don't need that happening in the developer! It happens on occasion in the pre-soak if I don't let the previous sheet soak long enough, but then I can take the time needed to separate them without worrying about uneven development. I don't see this reason above, so let's add it to the great reasons PE listed.

    I don't see how pre-soaking film before development can cause streaking and unevenness as someone above mentioned. Just the opposite would be my impression. Nor do I see many viable arguments against using a pre-soak that have been substantiated. DoremusScudder.com[/url]
    that's my experience tooto test this justplace a drop of water domewhere on the film and let it soak for a minute. after processing it will be eadsy to spot where this drop was placed,because developmentwas somewhat hampered by the water soak and the density will be reducedin that area.this unevenness between wet and ry film develoment is enough reson for e to skip a presoak.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    I never pre-soaked before I got a Jobo. Jobo recommends a 5 minute presoak so I use it. With most films and developers it pretty closely compensates for the continuous agitation giving similar times as for inversion. Plus it stabilizes the tank temperature. I run my B&W at 24C as recommended for T-Max RS developer but also use the same temp for others as it's high enough not to need to cool the solutions and the CPE heater can stabilize them.
    please note that they recommend a 5min -presoak. i nevr had a problem with long presoaks, but short presoaks of a minute or so left me with streaks and water spots!!!
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

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