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Thread: 777

  1. #11

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    777 proponents will argue it is not the same as Germain. It is also purportedly quite close in formulation to Edwal 12 (another Metol/PPD/Glycin sulfite formula). But again, people argue 777 is superior to Edwal 12. In what way specifically, it is never clear. It's one of those myth-status developers.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    777 proponents will argue it is not the same as Germain. It is also purportedly quite close in formulation to Edwal 12 (another Metol/PPD/Glycin sulfite formula). But again, people argue 777 is superior to Edwal 12. In what way specifically, it is never clear. It's one of those myth-status developers.
    Bluegrass swears on a mile high stack of Bibles that there's no glycin in 777. I don't believe them. I believe it's glycin that gives it its unique qualities. As regards Mustafa's original question, the metol in any of the developers you mention tends to soften the edges, yielding smoothness and apparent grainlessness at the expense of accutance. That's why I've gone back to ABC pyro for most of my work. For portraits, though, you can't beat 777 for making the skin glow. Just look at Fred's portrait of Natalie in that Unblinkingeye article.
    Jim

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by c6h6o3 View Post
    Bluegrass swears on a mile high stack of Bibles that there's no glycin in 777.

    you can say that again !

  4. #14
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Is it possible to order an chemical analysis for 777 ? Who can do it and to what cost ?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    Is it possible to order an chemical analysis for 777 ? Who can do it and to what cost ?
    I keep hoping that demand for 777 will dwindle to such an extent that Bluegrass will give up making it and release the formula. I don't know why they guard it so jealously. They can't be making any money out of it.

    Having said that, let me make a standing offer to anyone qualified to make a chemical analysis of it that I will contribute a gallon of 777 to that effort. I have both unmixed powders and a seasoned gallon of liquid.
    Jim

  6. #16

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    hi jim

    this is only a guess but maybe they guard the formula because it is a piece of photographic history
    that if it becomes public domain people will forget it, or it just becomes another "one of those formulas"
    everyone knows ... instead of having the mystique of defender/harvey's panthermic 777, only purchased at
    bluegrass packaging in kentucky

    john

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by c6h6o3 View Post
    Bluegrass swears on a mile high stack of Bibles that there's no glycin in 777. I don't believe them. I believe it's glycin that gives it its unique qualities. As regards Mustafa's original question, the metol in any of the developers you mention tends to soften the edges, yielding smoothness and apparent grainlessness at the expense of accutance. That's why I've gone back to ABC pyro for most of my work. For portraits, though, you can't beat 777 for making the skin glow. Just look at Fred's portrait of Natalie in that Unblinkingeye article.
    The fine grain/lower acutance effect in a developer like undiluted D23 has to do with the sulfite, relatively low level of activity, and high concentration of developing agent, not Metol per se. Metol can be a very high acutance developing agent, in part because of its sensitivity to bromide. In fact some of the sharpest non-staining developers are Metol formulas (see FX1/FX2 and others). It's also worth repeating the dilution (and development procedures) can have a significant impact on sharpness. For example, D76 at 1+3 is a sharp developer.

    I didn't know that about Bluegrass claiming there is no Glycin in 777. That's interesting.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Isn't PPD mostly dangerous in powder form? Is it dangerous in liquid form also? From what I understand it's also used in hair dye.

    When you buy the kits From Bluegrass, it comes in powder form, so you must use extreme caution and care when you mix it, so that NO dust of PPD is inhaled.
    I experienced dermatitis from one of the early color developing agents, a derivative of PPD. This was from a color print developer solution. Itching was INTENSE and I had blisters the size of peas on my fingers for about 10 days. I was forced to give up color printing. It was curious that the developing agent I had been using was said to be safer than other color developing agents and PPD.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    I experienced dermatitis from one of the early color developing agents, a derivative of PPD. This was from a color print developer solution. Itching was INTENSE and I had blisters the size of peas on my fingers for about 10 days. I was forced to give up color printing.
    Wow, while wearing gloves?
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Wow, while wearing gloves?
    No, but I was using tongs and a barrier cream..
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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