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  1. #11

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    For what it's worth, the prints that did work look really beautiful - we were using warm tone paper.

    So - Thomas, if I'm understanding you correctly,

    One print I did looks really nice, but it's a little darker than what I wanted. From your description on the bleach and re-develop approach, this might actually be good to try for that process.

    Part of me is scared to try it, because even though this print is a little darker than I planned for, it has a real moody look to it that I also like quite a lot.
    Dan's website: www.dandozer.com

  2. #12
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Dozer View Post
    For what it's worth, the prints that did work look really beautiful - we were using warm tone paper.

    So - Thomas, if I'm understanding you correctly,

    One print I did looks really nice, but it's a little darker than what I wanted. From your description on the bleach and re-develop approach, this might actually be good to try for that process.

    Part of me is scared to try it, because even though this print is a little darker than I planned for, it has a real moody look to it that I also like quite a lot.
    Yeah, it might work well, but before you spend time testing with a print you already like, try it with some test prints first to see how quickly things happen, learning snatch point for second pass lith, etc.
    Half a stop is quite a lot.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  3. #13
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Like Thomas I really like Ilford Warmtone for lith... there is a little trick that is required in my darkroom, I am not sure if this is the same in Thomas's.

    I need to snatch the print when the blacks just start to emerge, I do not wait until they do..or disaster

    I find that the contrast explodes in the fix using lith and therefore its a bit of a guessing game as to when to snatch to stop.
    This explosion of contrast is the same with regular develop but not as dramatic, maybe about a half grade, I also notice with the Art 300 paper.

    Funny this does not happen with any of the other papers.

    As Thomas points out in his first post, not cleaning out the old developer within the tray then mixing lith chemicals will create problems.

  4. #14
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Like Thomas I really like Ilford Warmtone for lith... there is a little trick that is required in my darkroom, I am not sure if this is the same in Thomas's.

    I need to snatch the print when the blacks just start to emerge, I do not wait until they do..or disaster

    I find that the contrast explodes in the fix using lith and therefore its a bit of a guessing game as to when to snatch to stop.
    This explosion of contrast is the same with regular develop but not as dramatic, maybe about a half grade, I also notice with the Art 300 paper.

    Funny this does not happen with any of the other papers.

    As Thomas points out in his first post, not cleaning out the old developer within the tray then mixing lith chemicals will create problems.
    My snatch point with Ilford Warmtone is definitely earlier too. It's as though the paper is heavily veiled until you put it in the fixer, and magically the undeveloped silver just clears and reveals a much higher contrast tonality, almost one full contrast grade.

    I haven't tried the Art 300 paper yet.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  5. #15
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    Could this be some kind of "pepper" effect?
    This is reduced by adding some potassium bromide to the developer.

    I haven't experienced it myself yet though, so this may be something else.
    -
    "Nice picture, you must have an amazing camera."
    Visit my photography blog at: http://helino-photo.blogspot.com

  6. #16
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    No

    It is a quirk about the paper... I suspect the sensitivity of the paper has been changed over the years ... the goal being to put this emulsion in a digital led enlarger.....
    only happens with ilford warmtone, and I believe the art 300 is the same emulsion on a heavily textured surface from Hannamuhle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helinophoto View Post
    Could this be some kind of "pepper" effect?
    This is reduced by adding some potassium bromide to the developer.

    I haven't experienced it myself yet though, so this may be something else.

  7. #17
    Mark Fisher's Avatar
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    Honestly, almost any paper can lith to some degree.....but I've tried MGIV and definitely don't bother if you are trying to learn. Personally, I recommend Fomatone to start out simply because it is a lot harder to screw up and it is easily manipulated by toners and freshness of developer. Thomas and Bob are great lith printers, but at least Bob, seems to appreciate the subtly of lith. Me, I want grain a color in my face so I only occationally use Ilfordwarmtone....it is my favorite straight printing paper. Others worth trying are Fotokmekia subtle beige tones. Realy beautiful with the right print. Fomobrom or arista lith like crazy. Fast infectous development and near neutral tone. Great for street work.

    I'm not sure what people have in their trays, but I haven't seen any issues from that.

  8. #18
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    thanks for the kind words Mark- I keep a box of Kodak Elite around for heavily overexposed negs, this paper really is unique in its response and if you like pepper fog then its the one.
    The smoothest paper for lith I ever found was Oriental 4 then it moved to Oriental 2.. .We called it the creamy look and was the paper of choice for Anton Corbins work I believe.

    I have found the the paper recommended by a bunch of the workers here Fomatone 131 - to be a first class paper for lith.

    Most worker use highly diluted dev,,,, and long times... and I am sure a lot of different looks are available... I prefer a very concentrated and quick snatch times 3 minutes.
    Therefore I get a lot of differing looks with flash and papers .. maybe not as much as some but preditable.

    Lately I have stopped printing lith and have concentrated on straight prints and solarizations. I ordered a tone of lith chemicals from Europe and hope to make a few murals this summer. My new favourite paper right now is the Art 300 so I am going to give this paper a go this summer and see how it performs.. I have used a few boxes lately and its great, but hard to wash.

  9. #19
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Thanks Mark, for the nice comment! Bob is a much better printer than I will dream to be, but am flattered to be mentioned in the same sentence.

    I too haven't printed in lith for a year or so. Not feeling inspired to do it, honestly, but in time it will come back. I have a nice stash of Kodak Ektalure to print on when inspiration strikes again.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #20
    blaze-on's Avatar
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    Dan I really think it was the developer....not the tray, not the paper, as Ilford MGIV WT works superbly in lith.
    Matt's Photo Site
    "I invent nothing, I rediscover". Auguste Rodin

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