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  1. #61
    fhovie's Avatar
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    How will the DS-14 - PC TEA developer listed in the recipe section compare with
    Amidol on AZO paper???

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by fhovie
    How will the DS-14 - PC TEA developer listed in the recipe section compare with
    Amidol on AZO paper???
    My first tests were encouraging. However, in my A-B comparisons with Azo, the MS Amidol/Azo combination won.

    I am still hoping that with split development (DS-14 and DS-15) I will achieve a result that is competitive with MS Amidol.
    Tom Hoskinson
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    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  3. #63
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    wow! I mixed it up like the posted instructions DS-14 - great blacks On AZo but maybe too much contrast. Is this developer really temp sensitive? It was probably at almost 80f when I used it. I made about 8 8x10 sheets and bottled it in an air tight purge bottle - I wonder if it will work in a few days. I added the Benzo and it made no difference. I made a 10% Benzo in alcholol and added a few drops to the I liter of working solution. Is there anything I can add to turn down the contrast a little?

  4. #64

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    I know it's important for everyone to have correct information.
    If not correct, corrected. So this correction:

    The ph of a weak A. acid solution is 2.3 and that of a weak
    bisulfite solution, 3.2. That to the best of my old Hanna pHep II.
    I will be checking again those ph with my brand new Milwaukee
    SM102 dual probe ph/temperature meter; $99.
    See at www.automatedaquariums.com

    While on the subject of ph, visit www.microessentiallab.com .
    Thay carry a vast selection of indicator papers, ph and others.
    They have a fix silver paper and one just for Mr. P. Gainer.
    An antifreeze paper, what else? How about that! Dan

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by fhovie
    wow! I mixed it up like the posted instructions DS-14 - great blacks On AZo but maybe too much contrast. Is this developer really temp sensitive? It was probably at almost 80f when I used it. I made about 8 8x10 sheets and bottled it in an air tight purge bottle - I wonder if it will work in a few days. I added the Benzo and it made no difference. I made a 10% Benzo in alcholol and added a few drops to the I liter of working solution. Is there anything I can add to turn down the contrast a little?
    Yes, it is temp sensitive. For example, 3 minutes at 68F is approximately equal to 1.8 minutes at 80F.

    Like JDEF says, to reduce the contrast, the first thing I would try is adding water (I would start by diluting the working solution 1:1). Another thing I would try is reducing or eliminating the sodium carbonate in the working developer (thus relying on the TEA as the only alkali) .
    Tom Hoskinson
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    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    Although vitamin C often seems to act as a substitute for hydroquinone, it differs in important aspects. Hydroquinone will not superadd with metol or phenidone unless there is at least 1.2 g sulfite present for each gram of hydroquinone. Ascorbic acid needs no sulfite.
    I mixed some Phenidone-Vitamin C-Benzotriazole paper developer recently (no sulfite). Worked OK, but didn't give me the "zing" in the print tones that my more usual Metol paper formula did. So I added a bit of Hydroquinone, and it really zinged things up a lot. So I'm wondering about your statement that HQ will not superadd without sulfite present. It sure did something.

    Larry

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by psvensson
    Larry, I tried making a two-bath ascorbic acid/carbonate paper developer today, but couldn't get it to work. I tried both acidic, neutral and slightly alkaline first baths, with up to 4 tbsps ascorbic acid in 500 ml of water. Nothing I tried gave me a good D-max - in fact, skipping the first bath gave equally good results.

    I've tried making a two-bath ascorbic film developer before, with equal lack of success. I think it has to do with the reaction product of ascorbate being acidic. When the film or paper goes over into the second bath, the ascorbate in the emulsion neutralizes the developer as it oxidizes, shutting down development too soon. This seems like something hydroquinone would do better.
    I think you're right about the need for Hydroquinone. My normal paper developer is a Metol-based formula, similar to Dektol. In experimenting with Phenidone-Vitamin C paper developer, I found that I wasn't getting much activity and was getting weak blacks, etc. So I added some Hydroquinone (I'd have to go to my darkroom to look for the exact amount, but I think it was around 1/2 tsp.) to the Bath A mix. My next prints virtually "popped" out of the tray when they hit the Bath B. I also added my usual 10 ml of Edwal's Liquid Orthazite (Benzotriazole) to Bath A, but that's just for anti-fog and I don't really know if it's necessary. But I'm pretty sure it was the HQ that did the trick. I don't pretend to understand the chemistry of it completely, but it did juice things up.

    If you're interested in the Metol formula, I'll send it along when I have the chance to copy it from where it's tacked to my darkroom bulletin board.

    By the way, with the divided technique, you can use two Bath A's if you wish to vary contrast. If you want a softer print, use a soft Bath A (similar to Selectol-- leave out the HQ or cut it way down--in the Metol-based formula). If you want a harder or more normal contrast, use a Bath A that's a more contrasty formula. If I'm printing a variety of negs shot from a variety of time periods and they're a mixed lot in terms of contrast, I'll often have both Bath A's mixed up, so that I can use whichever is better suited to the negative I'm printing.

    Larry

  8. #68
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    Strange. I seldom use hydroquinone in combination with ascorbic acid, although I have experimented with it. If I don't get enough black with PC-carbonate, I add more carbonate. Another alkali I use when I don't have rain or distilled water is a tablespoon of borax + a teaspoon of lye to the liter. If you are a stickler for weighing things out, weigh a tablespoon of borax and a teaspoon of lye and use those weights.

    I have found that sulfite does no noticeable good unless you have hydroquinone. Then you get lots of activity.
    Gadget Gainer

  9. #69
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    Forgot to mention I use a tablespoon of ascorbic or isoascorbic acid and 1/2 teaspoon of metol to the liter.
    Gadget Gainer

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    Forgot to mention I use a tablespoon of ascorbic or isoascorbic acid and 1/2 teaspoon of metol to the liter.
    Not metol WITH Phenidone, surely? I, too have used metol most frequently for my paper developer, sometimes with Vitamin C and sometimes with sulfite and/or HQ.

    I think the reason I was getting weak blacks with just PC-carbonate in a paper formula, is that I always do divided development for paper. So it's possible that the PC in Bath A is not getting sufficiently activated by the carbonate in Bath B, which is perhaps why I've stuck with metol in Bath A most of the time. Or perhaps I just didn't have a strong enough concentration of PC. But I could hardly believe how much "pop" I got with this recent formula simply by adding some HQ to the PC in Bath A. Bath B remained my usual 1/3 cup per 2 liters of water. I also put 10 ml Benzotriazole (Liquid Orthazite) in the PC or PCQ bath.

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