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  1. #1

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    Brown toner BLOOMS in HCA

    I am using a LegacyPro brand brown toner. This is a one step brown toner (not the bleach redevelop type).

    I was told doing this and follow it with a soak to HCA to stop the process. A problem is, the toning process actually seems to speed up in HCA and the color shifts to warm brown with some red in it. In HCA, the color visibly changes.

    I actually like the color but it makes the process very difficult to control and get the right amount of toning.

    Am I misinformed about using HCA as a stop-bath for brown toner?
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  2. #2

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    Iíve never heard of putting a brown toned print directly into HCA. Usually, youíd wash for 2 minutes after toning, HCA for 1 minute, followed by a 30-minute wash for FB prints or 4 minutes for RC.

    See page 4 here for Kodakís recommendation.

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...bs/g23/g23.pdf

  3. #3
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Me either.

    When I use the old brown toner from Kodak and Agfa I always had scum even after washing which I then put in a mild acid bath the rewash which got rid of the problem.
    I switched completely away from these toners because of the dreaded scum problem


    Quote Originally Posted by Ian C View Post
    Iíve never heard of putting a brown toned print directly into HCA. Usually, youíd wash for 2 minutes after toning, HCA for 1 minute, followed by a 30-minute wash for FB prints or 4 minutes for RC.

    See page 4 here for Kodakís recommendation.

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...bs/g23/g23.pdf

  4. #4

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    So I heard it wrong then.

    Would either of you gentleman have suggestion on how to STOP the process real quick?

    While we are on the subject, do you use hardening fixer after brown toning as suggested by Kodak's literature?

    Does HCA trick supposed to work for selenium? I head this SOMEWHERE....
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  5. #5

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    Look in Tim Rudman's book on toning, mine is still in a box some where from my recent move. It's a stronger sodium sulfite solution than HCA has in it. Subtle brown toning takes a bit of practice to master.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbender View Post
    Subtle brown toning takes a bit of practice to master.
    I've gone though 1/2 box of paper already.... and goal is no where in sight!
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  7. #7

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    Iíve never tried to stop the toning in the manner we usually mean for stopping development of a developer-soaked FB print. I tend to brown or polysulfide tone for maximum color change, and begin the rinse, HCA, and final wash as outlined in the Kodak PDF linked above. Iíve never bothered with the hardener step.

    I believe I recall reading discussions of direct sulfide toning in which only partial toning was wanted. In that case, the recommendation is to remove the print from the toner and place it into the wash at a point somewhat before the print attains the desired color. Once the print is transferred to a wash tray, the toning should come to a stop fairly quickly as the retained toner in the print is diluted with the rinse water.

    The idea is to time this so that any additional color change that takes place in the wash is taken into consideration so that the final print will have the color wanted. To find the removal point requires doing tests with test prints or small test strips cut from the same paper.

    Iím not familiar with using HCA in the manner you described. Iíve only used it in the standard way as a means of converting retained fixer into a more water soluble form for faster and more complete removal in the final wash.

  8. #8
    brian steinberger's Avatar
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    To stop brown toner you have to quickly rinse the print, very quickly with a blast of water to remove all much toner as quick as possible, but be careful not to damage the print. Then transfer to a sodium sulfite solution of 100g to a liter of water for 5 minutes, then to wash. Regular HCA will not do and the toner will become more diluted and hence the color change. Stock HCA will work but is very very expensive. Just buy some sodium sulfite in bulk and have at it!

  9. #9

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    brown toning takes a while to master. Partial toning or a lighter, less complete tone is challenging to do with consistency, but it is possible. Try a more dilute solution and keeping accurate track of time and temp, as well as a consistent wash sequence post toning but pre-HCA. HCA doesn't halt the process immediately, if you overtoned you've Overtoned. The color is based on how much silver is left in the image, so an excessively high key or shadow filled image will tone differently than one that is more even. Practice practice practice. 1/2 box is merely a start.....

  10. #10
    brian steinberger's Avatar
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    No hardening fix needed after toning. In regards to the scum, this happens to me sometimes. After I pull the print from the sodium sulfite "stop bath" I rinse it for a few minutes in a tray with siphon and them swab with cotton balls smoothly over the surface. I then do the same at the end of the final wash and never have any problems.

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