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  1. #21

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    A lot of us 93 year olds are now

    Titanium Hip-sters !
    - Bill Lynch

  2. #22

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    The main appeal of blackbird vs other high contrast b&w films is that it's on polyester, and thereby archival quality 1000+years.
    Meaning that "young hipsters" can take photo's, and have the negatives around when they are 93, unlike with vinegar (acetate) films 40+years.
    Though even acetate is an order of magnitude longer lived than flash-cards which have a half-life (life-expectancy) of only 4 years.
    So any hipsters you know that may be interested in seeing their pictures in a decade or more, should get film.
    Last edited by streondj; 10-16-2012 at 10:16 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #23

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    Dear Streondj,

    I am not having a go but some balance is needed here.

    Tri-acetate base does not have a life 40 years, it is fully archival :

    Polyester is a 'lower cost' base Tri-acetate base is significantly more expensive and the accepted base for miniature ( 35mm ) film because of it properties, including longevity.

    Polyester is though a perfectly acceptable substrate for certain coating applications ( such as surveillance ) where the film needs to be potentially very thin and where film needs to driven at high speed, and with polyester you have the major problem, it can ( and does ) on occasion wreck cameras...

    Simon ILFORD Photo, HARMAN technology Limited :

  4. #24
    AgX
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    Is it the film that wrecks the camera, or a camera operator who employs excessive force (that will be tranferred by that strong material)?

  5. #25

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    Dear AgX,

    Good point.....!

    The biggest issue we know about was conventional motor drives ( especially in the press days, when we were testing 72 exposure cassettes coated on polyester ) also, if you use good practice of tensioning a 35mm after loading by withdrawing the film into the cassette in camera after loading, if you go that bit too far and build too much tension it could 'possibly' damage the wind on, especially on older cameras.

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

  6. #26

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    Dear simon ilford photo.
    Calling acetate archival is like saying,
    "anything can be archived" if it's cold enough,
    ya mammoths are archival too I guess.

    In order to make acetate archival grade,
    you have to keep them in a dry fridge.
    however at room temperature it's lifetime is decades.
    Triacetate film is also sensitive to humidity and water.

    Whereas glass, paper, and polyester can all be stored at room temperature for centuries.

    Polyester will always outlive the binder and color.
    Also you can store polyester film in your library,
    where albums and other records belong.

    I don't know anyone that keeps a dry fridge in their library.
    And the fridge in my kitchen is too humid,
    mold grows in food left too long,
    as with most kitchen fridges,
    unsuitable for acetate film.

    In terms of the camera winding mechanism,
    it can be repaired, even reinforced.

    If polyester film is so much cheaper, then Ilford should make some.
    Hey perhaps can even "innovate" and make some vegan film, with gum arabic binder.
    Then I and other healthy young people expecting to live a long time, would have reason to buy your film.

    Otherwise Rollei knows where it's at with polyester! Woo hoo :-D
    They are often sold out, even in online stores.
    Obviously other people know its benefits also.
    Gonna have to order direct from Germany,
    bulk of course, it's worth it :-).

    Logan Streondj longevity enthusiast.
    Last edited by streondj; 10-28-2012 at 12:18 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #27
    Stephanie Brim's Avatar
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    Considering that there are negatives around from the 20s and 30's in box/folding cameras that are still good, I'm going to call bullshit on this. Those films were invariably NOT stored in ideal environments and the film base is still fine. The *emulsion* may have gone bad, but that isn't the fault of the base.

    Quote Originally Posted by streondj View Post
    Dear simon ilford photo.
    Calling acetate archival is like saying,
    "anything can be archived" if it's cold enough,
    ya mammoths are archival too I guess.

    In order to make acetate archival grade,
    you have to keep them in a dry fridge.
    however at room temperature it's lifetime is decades.
    Triacetate film is also sensitive to humidity and water.

    Whereas glass, paper, and polyester can all be stored at room temperature for centuries.

    Polyester will always outlive the binder and color.
    Also you can store polyester film in your library,
    where albums and other records belong.

    I don't know anyone that keeps a dry fridge in their library.
    And the fridge in my kitchen is too humid,
    mold grows in food left too long,
    as with most kitchen fridges.

    In terms of the camera winding mechanism,
    it can be repaired, even reinforced.

    If polyester film is so much cheaper, then Ilford should make some.
    Hey perhaps can even "innovate" and make some vegan film, with gum arabic binder.
    Then I and other healthy young people expecting to live a long time, would have reason to buy your film.

    Otherwise Rollei knows where it's at with polyester! Woo hoo :-D
    They are often sold out, even in online stores.
    Obviously other people know its benefits also.
    Gonna have to order direct from Germany.

    Logan Streondj longevity enthusiast.
    No idea what's going to happen next, but I'm hoping it involves being wrist deep in chemicals come the weekend.

  8. #28

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    I am afraid that most on APUG would side with Mr Galley on the archival aspect of today's acetate base. What are your credentials Mr Streondj?
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  9. #29
    brucemuir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by streondj View Post
    Then I and other healthy young people expecting to live a long time, would have reason to buy your film.

    Logan Streondj longevity enthusiast.
    IDK you could buy it because in the right hands it's capable of producing beautiful images.
    Seems like a good enough reason for this old unhealthy person that expects to live for a while yet

  10. #30
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    while it is true that Acetate can break down, particularly if stored in areas of high temperature and Humidity, accompanied by rusty metal, it is relatively stable. High humidity can also allow the groth of fungus on any type of film, so keeping the humidity down is always to the good.

    Poly film is used for industrial photography, (such as shooting from aircraft, etc) as it is very dimensionally stable and very tough. This is the same reason is is used for Motion Picture PRINT film. On the minus side it is curly, and attracts dust.

    I shot an old roll of HP5 Motor drive film from my freezer this summer, it was of course rather fogged but still worked. I used a canon 300V as most of my canons stop after 36 shots no matter how much film they have. I still have the special Stainless Tank and reel, but the filling cap has been misplaced. I managed with some gaffer tape.

    Most movie negative is still Acetate.
    Charles MacDonald
    aa508@ncf.ca
    I still live just beyond the fringe in Stittsville

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