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  1. #41

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    Many improvements have been made in the preparation of acetate films since their first inception. Vinegarization stories always involve older negatives. Both Ilford and Kodak say acetate films are archival and I accept their word on the matter.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

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  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    Many improvements have been made in the preparation of acetate films since their first inception. Vinegarization stories always involve older negatives. Both Ilford and Kodak say acetate films are archival and I accept their word on the matter.
    They are archival, when frozen:

    • Maximum Temperature 36°F / 2°C and Relative Humidity Range of 20% to 50%
    • Maximum Temperature 41°F / 5°C and Relative Humidity Range of 20% to 40%
    • Maximum Temperature 45°F / 7°C and Relative Humidity Range of 20% to 30%

    As per ISO Standard 18911 - Processed safety photographic films -- Storage practices
    http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/ca...csnumber=46602

    and here some publications from Rochester Institute of Technology
    https://www.imagepermanenceinstitute...s/publications

  3. #43
    heterolysis's Avatar
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    All of my dad's negatives from prior to 1972 (40+ years, for all the 93-year-olds that are fuzzy on math nowadays ) are still in perfect shape. They have been stored in a damp basement no colder than 20C for almost all of that time. Will they go bad in another 10 years? I'll update you when apug's 20th rolls around. In the meantime, I'll use the time to scan all 4600 frames!

    As for the "hipster" comments earlier in the thread --- I find it silly that we can say plastic cameras aren't real cameras and then talk here about pinholes with a straight face---a Ford Focus is no BMW, but it's still a car. As someone much younger than 93 (25 in fact), I can say that even since I picked up a camera film has become harder and harder to find. If I can buy "hipster" film at my local art store, so be it. $15 3-packs aren't a terrible deal these days as chances are there are only two other places in town selling "real" film. Sure $3 Arista exists, but it's not $3 by the time I get it up to Canada.

    The biggest problem with the new lomo films (and the reason this thread started) is the lack of data available for processing. I bought a 3-pack of Lomo B&W when on vacation and unable to find any other films, and I ended up having to guess the development for my roll of Lady Grey 400 as there was no data for DD-X. Luckily I was pushing it several stops and the exact time, whether 7 or 8min for example, became less significant.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by heterolysis View Post
    All of my dad's negatives from prior to 1972 (40+ years, for all the 93-year-olds that are fuzzy on math nowadays ) are still in perfect shape. They have been stored in a damp basement no colder than 20C for almost all of that time.
    Family photographs from the 1930's to the present stored in hot and humid Florida climate also show no vinegarization,
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by heterolysis View Post
    All of my dad's negatives from prior to 1972 (40+ years, for all the 93-year-olds that are fuzzy on math nowadays ) are still in perfect shape. They have been stored in a damp basement no colder than 20C for almost all of that time...
    Please, share Your family storage practices.. millions archivist, photographers and cinematographers are gonna be very thankful

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    Family photographs from the 1930's to the present stored in hot and humid Florida climate also show no vinegarization,
    Yes, I remember that You shared this in other threads.
    Perhaps You are using Kodak molecular sieve acid scavenger?
    http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Suppo.../molecular.htm

  6. #46
    Andy K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    www.rollei.com have neither too much information. If you follow the links you reach :http://www.macodirect.de/analog-colo...3f43c9b61a1865

    There are blackbird , nightbird , redbird , crossbird films at the list.

    For blackbird below information listed :
    Negativ Film black & white

    ISO 25/15° / ISO 100/21°



    process 100/21° D76 20° stock 10 min
    process 25/25° D76 20° stock 6 min
    process 100/21° RHS 20° 1+7 10 min
    process

    25/25

    RHS 20° 1+7 6 min

    Important handling notes for films with a synthetic film base:
    The emulsion is coated onto a transparent synthetic base providing excellent long-term and dimensional stability.
    This films has to be loaded in the camera and unloaded in subdued light. Before and after exposition always store the films in the black light-tight film-container. Not following these advices can cause light infiltration through the base material to the exposed pictures. Rollfilms: Please take care in handling the 120 size films in keeping the film-roll tight with two fingers after breaking the unexposed adhesive label to avoid that the film is rolling to "spring off". The same procedure should be followed after taking the roll film out of the camera. The exposed film should be kept compellingly again in the black light-tight rollfilm-container.

    From Rollei’s Creative Edition comes the Blackbird 100asa Black and White film. A new stock of great contrast, deep midtones and rich blacks. 36 exposures, process with Black and White chemicals

    An picture from the film :

    Attachment 50152

    Thank you for posting this information Mustafa. I am very tempted by this film.


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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by streondj View Post
    hmmm I'm pretty sure it's acetate that's curly,
    Poly film is subject to what is called "Core Set" where if it has been currled up, it will tend to want to stay currled up. So Poly sheet film may indeed be flater than acetate sheet film. But Poly roll film will likly show some "set" and want to stay currled.

    As far as longevity of the two bases, the Poly is More stable, but acetate these days is also quite good. The factors that are known to cause problems with acetate are also bad for the image. I am sure that an archivist wanting to keep Poly film "forever" would also try to justify cold starage, particularly if the image was in colour.
    Charles MacDonald
    aa508@ncf.ca
    I still live just beyond the fringe in Stittsville

  8. #48

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    Core-set is okay, considering that if it's stored flat in an album,
    it'll have a tendency to continue to be flat *shrugs*.
    It just means that polyester has some memory.

    Ya, chromogenic films require cold storage.
    blackbird the topic of this thread is however a black and white film, so should be fine at room temperature.

    I'm actually considering developing a longevity-film for color, based on autochrome,
    but using fewer layers, but with chemically stable mineral pigments,
    then could develop it with eco-friendly B&W developer also :-).

  9. #49
    AgX
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    Core set is not okay. Buckles induced from roller in the film transport system could form problems at the image plane.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by streondj View Post
    ...
    Ya, chromogenic films require cold storage.
    blackbird the topic of this thread is however a black and white film, so should be fine at room temperature...
    Fine at room temperature for how long?
    With stable bases like poly the emulsion might shrink more than the base at room temp

    Charles is spot on that every type requires cold storage.
    The Polyester B&W ones are less demanding in the short run but You still need reasonable relative humidity and in the long run You will resort to cold storage.

    All color films, regardless base support need cold storage. Those dyes will fade at room temp and it doesn't mater if the emulsion is coated on triacetate or polyester. The only way to slow down fading is cold storage.

    The color production from movie industry is usually "printed" on YCM separation archival masters - black-and-white polyester film stock and its normally cold stored as well, not without a reason.

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