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  1. #21

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    SUCCESS!

    After considerable amount of experimentation and a consultation with Dr. Rudman, I was able to achieve BLUE toning the way I wanted.

    First off, Dr. Rudman says Edwal product IS an iron toner. He also said blue is notoriously difficult to get it right especially in fiber paper that he recommends RC. I had some scrap print on RC, so I just tried it really quickly.

    The result is, I have no blue in borders and the toning is proportional to the density in print.

    Looks good....
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  2. #22

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    I'm not sure what the current production is or exactly what you ordered. Both Berg and Edwal have supplied a variety of toners over the years. Indeed, some have been dye toners that just impart an overall tone to the gelatin. Others have been coupler toners that just color the image. Those work somewhat like Kodachrome and generally involve a bleach and redevelop method. Berg has produced gold based blue toners in the past, and Edwal has produced iron toners.

  3. #23

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    One of the problems I encountered with Edwal products are that there is no publication available that tells me exactly what they are. There is a little leaflet that comes with each bottle but it's generic and doesn't really tell me anything.

    This product acts like a dye toner with FB paper and it tones everywhere including the borders. With RC, it tones proportionally with density of the silver.

    I have Photographer's Formulary version on order. I know what these are....

    This is very frustrating.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  4. #24

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    Delusion was in ratio of toner:water, 1:15, that is one part toner, 15 part water. This is per instructions. To be more specific, it says "dilute the concentrate with 15 parts of water..."

    Problem that I had with its use with fiber paper is that it stained everywhere and did not wash off. Because it toned borders and highlights so heavily (and didn't wash off), the whole thing turned blue with reduction of contrast. With RC, the highlight and border stayed white after brief wash.

    Another problem I had is that the working solution exhausts fast - not with time but when it reacts with silver. When I didn't have enough, it didn't tone completely. Reaction speed was slow enough that I had good control. It started changing color vaguely at 1 minute mark. At 3 minute mark, it had good blue but had still some distance to go before it's completed.

    I have no idea what it'll do with film.

    I tend NOT to suggest this product because knowledge base is so sparse - to a point almost non-existent.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  5. #25

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    Yes, that stuff is ferri.... I'm not sure if you are supposed to wash for that long. When I did RC, less than 5 minutes wash is all it required. Even with FB, at 30 minutes mark, good portion of the color has dissolved off the emulsion.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  6. #26
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    Here is the formula I have made up for students. Its been awhile since anyone asked me to mix some up, but it seemed to work fine.

    From Elementary Photographic Chemistry (Eastman Kodak Company), 1941:

    Formula T-12 -- Blue toner for paper

    In separate containers, dissolve the below separately in about 250ml water each:

    Ferric Ammonium Citrate -- 4.0 grams
    Oxalic Acid -- 4.0 grams
    Potassium Ferricyanide -- 4.0 grams

    Filter each before mixing together (actually I never do)

    Mix the three together.

    Add water to make 1 liter

    Immerse well washed print for 10 to 15 minutes until desired tone is achieved.
    Wash until highlights clear.

    There is another toner formula for slides and films (T-11) -- with instructions for making 120 gallons! For the motion picture industry, I guess!
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  7. #27
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    If I have time, I'll post Formula T-11 later in the day -- or scan the page.
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  8. #28
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    Blue toner for film
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Toning.jpg  
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    Matt,

    I thought BLUE was an iron blue toner. My understanding is that component of the toner reacts with silver in the image and turns into dye - in turn toning that location. So.... I thought it will affect the shadow and leave the highlight alone. Instructions say to wash long enough to clear the highlight.

    I did that and everything washed off.... very very very vague hint of blue remained but it hardly left any color....
    Note that the above formula warns against long washes in water that is alkaline. How's your water?
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

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