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  1. #11
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    It has been 20 years since I did a lot of silver printing -- Iflord Gallerie for neutral colored prints, and Agfa Portriga Rapid for warm.

    Graded papers offered more paper surfaces and colors. The surface of Portriga Rapid 111 (glossy) was beautiful. I used a combo of Selectol-soft and Dektol to get paper grades between 2 and 3 with Grade 3 paper.
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  2. #12
    henk@apug's Avatar
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    Thanks all for your comments !

  3. #13

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    Michael R brings up a good point about stained negs. I tried a Pyro variation (ABC, I think) some time ago, which produced a soft, very long scale neg, very nice for some applications, but the neg had a greenish cast. This had too much effect on my Aristo V54 lamp and filter combination, adding a lower contrast component to the mix, and resulted in very long exposures with I compensated with bluer end filtration. If I was more committed to the Pyro, graded paper might have been an option, which wouldn't have responded to the color of the neg (or, at least, not as much).

  4. #14
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Graded papers ... work differently with negatives that have been developed in some staining developers. These are some differences to be aware of, but not good or bad qualities.
    In a recent thread the effect of stain on the contrast of Multigrade paper was evaluated.

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/8...-contrast.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    There are no advantages to using graded papers compared to current VC papers, unless you value having much less flexibility in printing (particularly when working with difficult negatives).
    Strong opinion, but not a fair summation of the advantages and disadvantages...

    I'll grant that there are many advantages delivered by today's high-quality Multigrade paper.

    But having a benchmark that encourages you to make more consistent quality negatives isn't the only advantage of graded papers.

    The stuff seems to last forever.

  5. #15
    Mainecoonmaniac's Avatar
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    Graded paper can be beautiful. I prefer MG paper because I can change grades in fraction of a grade and you can do split grade printing.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burk View Post
    In a recent thread the effect of stain on the contrast of Multigrade paper was evaluated.

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/8...-contrast.html



    Strong opinion, but not a fair summation of the advantages and disadvantages...

    I'll grant that there are many advantages delivered by today's high-quality Multigrade paper.

    But having a benchmark that encourages you to make more consistent quality negatives isn't the only advantage of graded papers.

    The stuff seems to last forever.
    Regarding staining, I found there to be real differences in some cases. It depends on the contrast range of the image and the type of stain.

    Regarding advantages/disadvantages, I guess for me the benchmark argument is a red herring. We should strive to make negatives which contain the information they need to make the desired print, and the choice of printing paper can be an important part of that negative exposure/development decision. Whether you make inconsistent crap negatives, or consistent quality negatives, VC paper only increases flexibility vs graded paper. I can't see how more flexibility is ever a drawback unless you need your materials to make decisions for you.

    If graded paper lasts longer, ok I'll give you that, assuming it is the case. I've never tested that.

    The only other arguments I hear in favor of graded papers are usually esoteric, abstract, vague accounts ("graded papers look beautiful"). What does that mean exactly? Compared to what? Which paper?

    So I'm still waiting for an advantage (besides keeping properties, possibly) that applies generally.

  7. #17

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    Hi Michael,

    As with most things, flexibility comes at a price. As you've found, I've found that graded papers generally are more responsive to toners, especially chlorobromide 'warmtone' papers. If you split-tone with selenium, this can mean that the colour change is more obvious and it's easier to gauge when to 'pull' the print from the toner. I'm thinking mainly of Ilford Gallerie FB, which is a 'bromo-chloride' paper, and gives a rich, warm brown in selenium. Ilford Multigrade IV FB, which takes a very slight bluish tone in selenium. Gallerie also seems to give a richer tone in sulphide.

    IMO they're different products, neither one is better nor worse. If you never tone your prints, stick with Multigrade and you won't see much difference. If you tone, you'll love the Gallerie unless you don't want a colour change. Bear in mind that the last time I used either seriously was 5 years ago and they might have changed radically since then. I don't know what other graded papers are still available. YMMV of course.

    Cheers,
    kevs
    Last edited by kevs; 05-13-2012 at 09:16 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    testing...

  8. #18
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    Hey Michael,

    I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm for Multigrade paper. It's for you, it's not for me. That's just two sides of a discussion about material that we are both passionate about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    So I'm still waiting for an advantage (besides keeping properties, possibly) that applies generally.
    With graded papers I can see the easel better for focusing and composing.

  9. #19

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    Kevs, totally agree regarding toning properties being an important element to a paper's characteristics. What I'm saying is even when it comes to toning, we can't really generalize when it comes to graded vs VC. It's really a matter of the individual paper. No two papers tone exactly the same way, whether graded or VC.

    Bill, what do you mean by seeing the easel better?

  10. #20
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    The only other arguments I hear in favor of graded papers are usually esoteric, abstract, vague accounts ("graded papers look beautiful"). What does that mean exactly? Compared to what? Which paper?
    I believe it comes down to the much larger number of brands, types, surfaces, etc that were available in graded papers than were available in VC papers. The chances of finding a graded paper that matched one's vision (thus more "beautiful") were much higher than with the very few choices one had with VC papers.

    As graded papers disappeared from the marketplace and new VC papers arriving, this has reversed somewhat.

    Vaughn
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

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