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  1. #1

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    Delta 100 in Rodinal

    Today I started to print a frame from a roll of Delta 100 and when I looked at the first print it was spattered with small black spots-not all of them round.
    I checked the rest of the roll and every frame full of random pinholes.
    I then checked other rolls of FP4 and EFKE 25 from the same vacation developed from the same bottle of Rodinal and no problems.
    Suggestions anyone?

    Mark
    Mark Layne
    Nova Scotia
    and Barbados

  2. #2
    BWGirl's Avatar
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    Can you tell us more about your process?? Since the other films were not damaged in any way, could it have been a flaw in the film itself? Did you use a water stop bath?

    I have developed Delta 100 in Rodinal many, many times without a problem. I have used it 1:25 and 1:50 with a water stop bath.

    I guess because the other films were not bothered, I would tend to think that there must have been a flaw in the film; or if you used regular stop bath (not water) it could have eaten the holes...but it would be odd since nothing happened to the other rolls...especially the FP4 (I'm not familiar with the Efke).
    Jeanette
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    Isaiah 25:1

  3. #3
    joeyk49's Avatar
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    BWGirl: Why water stop? Does chemical stop bath react poorly with the Rodinal?

  4. #4

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    I routinely use rodinal with delta 100 (i like the biteing sharpness of this combo) and never had such problems, yet I always use water as a stop bath. I've read somewhere that rodinal's reaction with acetic stop bath could damage the film and a friend of mine's report seems to point in this direction.

  5. #5
    rjr
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    Jeanette,

    the only danger of _real_ pinholes is to be expected under two situations:

    - a developer containing lots of carbonates and
    - a deep tank processor

    It needs the hydrostatic pressure down in the tank to form enough CO2 in the emulsion to rupture it and only this is called "pinholes". I have never seen it.

    And there is no sodium carbonate in Rodinal. It´s not the Rodinal, it´s not strong enough (in fact it will degenerate within 2h after mixing the solution).

    Another thing I have seen and suffered myself are weak emulsions - usually in reversal processes with plain vanilla bw films. My best guess it is the stress of switching from highly alkaline solutions to acid solutions and vice versa over a longer period of time.

    I fixed this with the help of intermediate stopping baths, 3% acetic acid stop baths between the steps, it helped reducing the "shock" putting the swelled emulsion into the bleach.

    If the emulsion breaks the pieces are scattered all around on the film surface, you will notice it immediately when pouring out the solution (water, fix, whatever) - it will be grey.

    Sometimes it´s a production flaw, I have heard it before with APX and Ilford films. Go back to the producer, give them a sample negative and the emulsion number to check their backup rolls in the freezer.
    Tschüss,
    Roman

  6. #6
    rogueish's Avatar
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    Are you sure they are pinholes?
    There was a batch of film from Ilford that had black grit like contaminants in the emulsion. At that time Ilford remedied the problem and offered to replace any unused film from that batch. (was about a year ago, so I doubt the offer still stands.) If you have more of the Delta 100 that was bought at the same time, check the batch codes against the "problem" roll (if you still have the info).
    I just developed 2 rolls of Delta 100 in rodinal (1+50) last night and they came out rather nice and will likely be printing some this week.

  7. #7

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    I can only think that it was the stop bath but I normally mix this very weak.
    The tonality was excellent but the grain was obtrusive and perhaps there was a drop in the temp of incoming wash water.
    This roll had been in the freezer and did go through two sets of X-rays.
    However I have never seen this before in 40 years.

    Mark
    Mark Layne
    Nova Scotia
    and Barbados

  8. #8
    BWGirl's Avatar
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    I guess I'd run a little test, Mark... especially if the lot codes are the same on any unexposed rolls. I'd shoot a roll and develop it using a water stop bath & shoot a second roll using whatever stop bath you used before.

    If both rolls have the same problem, you will know it is the film. Send an email to Ilford and give them all the details & the lot code.

    If the roll in the water stop bath is good, well then... I guess that's the answer!
    Last edited by BWGirl; 11-29-2004 at 07:30 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: keyboard error! ha
    Jeanette
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    Isaiah 25:1

  9. #9
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    "Grit" in the film emulsion will be opaque; therefore print white.

    Pinholes are actually holes - no density, and will print black.

    Some years ago. there was a wide-spread discussion about pinholes and their cause. At the time, a number of film manufacturesrs participated, and the general consensus was that an acid stop bath, reacting with the alkaline developer was usually the cause. I remember Ilford, in particular, advocating the elimination of all acidic stop baths entirely, and substituting either nothing or a water rinse.

    I have followed that advice, and in the last six or seven years, have been "film pinhole" (bad) free, except for *one* that cropped up about two weeks ago. I remember that one, because it is totally unacceptable on that particular figure study. Unfortunately, it seems that very little in photography is governed by absolute, infallible, rock steady rules. Translation: Sh*t Happens.

    The theory of the use of a stop bath is interesting: supposedly it is used to stop the developing action immediately; but does the development continuing for an additional five or ten seconds really have a significant effect on the final image?
    Even if such precision -- note also that whatever effect it had would be reasonably repeatable -- was desirable, as far as I know, no study has ever been done of the comparison of "development stopping times" between an acid stop bath and a water rinse.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  10. #10
    dschneller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Layne
    Today I started to print a frame from a roll of Delta 100 and when I looked at the first print it was spattered with small black spots-not all of them round.
    I checked the rest of the roll and every frame full of random pinholes.
    I then checked other rolls of FP4 and EFKE 25 from the same vacation developed from the same bottle of Rodinal and no problems.
    Suggestions anyone?

    Mark

    Mark, I bulk load Delta 100 and have also noticed 'grit' or small black spots on the developed film. This has occured using Microdol-X, Ilfosol S, and T-max developer. I have not seen any 'pinholes' just the black spots and it has only been on a small number of frames. Most rolls are completely free of defects. I think rogueish is correct in stating that this is due to a manufacturing defect.

    Dave
    "...slow down and start using photography to create an image, not just capture one." b.e.wilson

    "Speed kills, Del" Johnny Fever

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