Ansco 130 restrainer question (PE, G. Koch please chime in also)

[eclarke]

not a good practice. Pulling the print prematurely makes for low-contrst midtones and weak shadows.

Unless it's right.. I said I am prepared to snatch it if necessary.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Michael, I hope you do not mind me saying that I feel I may be following in your footsteps in the search for a cooler working 130 for MGWT. I have spent the last 3 days combing APUG for posts about cooling down warmtone emulsions (there is ton of good info here spanning a few years), through developer and toner choice, and I think I am ready to mix up a developer, or two, this Friday to reprint one of my images, for which I seek less of a brown tone following Se. I will use MGWT, fibre, and I am fond of 130, because that's what I have used for the past 4 years, exclusively. I like the gentle plum of Se, and I have integrated it well into my process. It seems a logical choice would be to try BTA instead of KBr in 130, or a combination of both. Did you experiment with other antifoggants that Ruyji mentioned in his older posts?


Before I do so, may I ask you to share what your experience was with this experiment? Did you persist? What temperature and dilution, and what time did you settle on?


I like MGIV shadows, highlights, and the midtones, in 130 followe by Se, very much, but I am less fond of the optically brightened base nowadays, than I was in the past. Having said that, I like it very much when I know my print hangs where the brightener doesn't get the UV it needs. MGWT does not seem to have that issue, and I also like its tonality, very much.

[DREW WILEY]

I sometimes substitute powder benz at approx 1/4 the gram wt of KBr. The final warmth/coolness factor
is really related to the final toning regimen, and not totally predictable simply by the choice of restrainer. This is esp the case if you use gold toners. I've never had good results snatch developing VC papers, incl MGWT, in the sense that I once did with premium graded papers.

[DREW WILEY]

Should have followed that up by noting how image warmth is affected by the actual aging/oxidation of
the glycin itself. My habit is to keep a fresh unopened bottle of glycin power in the freezer, with another
bottle gradually ripening through gradual use - then pick out the particular negs which might best match
that stage of glycin stain.

[AndreasT]

I may be wrong in this but I think it was our very own PE who wrote here somewhere that because of the high KBr content Ansco 130 last long because new Bromide created during development is relatively seen little to affect or change the developer.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Andrew, I was wondering, actually, if dropping this considerable amount of KBr would impact 130's legendary powers and longevity. If you, or Michael, or anyone else have data about the BTA 130 and its longevity, I'd love know. I suppose there is an amount of KBr that should stay there even with BTA added.

Drew, thanks for stressing the importance of toning. I'm planning to stick with Se, as I like the gentle plum shade, and it fits my workflow with this paper, but I may experiment with gold again, though it was too blue for my liking when I used it with MGIV, must try with MGWT. I had no idea that aged glycin will impact on tone. Mine is frozen and happily seems fresh, light tan, when I mix it.

[nworth]

An old technique was to use 1 g of KBr in the stock solution and then adjust the tone (and possibly the fog level) by adding 10 percent KBr solution. BZT is well known for its cooling effect in Ansco 130, and it also restrains fog. You can use both if you like. and 1 g KBr plus BZT to taste seems like a reasonable approach.

[Patrick Robert James]

I prefer the Ansel version of 130 (which omits the Hydroquinone) and I use Benzotriozole instead of the KBr. Give that a try. It sounds like it is what you are looking for.

[Michael R 1974]

AndreasT: Yes the high level of bromide is said to be a key factor in the stability of 130 over its working life (including print colour).

Rafal: I went around in circles on this for a long time. In the end I went back to my standard MGIV/Dektol/Selenium workflow for neutral tones, which I admit was what I expected to happen, rather than working against a warm toned paper to achieve a neutral tone. I tried all sorts of things with 130 and some other developers, with Selenium toning, contacted wedges and even did colour densitometry with the results. In the end I always come back to Dektol. I still have some SE6 I will try at some point. But I doubt it will do anything special. I didn't find Ansco 130 gave me better results than Dektol - in fact in most cases there was no difference within the margins of experimental error. So why would I bother scratch-mixing and having to worry about the Glycin they ship me?

One avenue I'd like to look into is using a warm-tone developer to shift MGIV to warm-neutral. I think that might be of more value to me.

If you are interested in cooling MGWT, you might want to look up Brian Steinberger's APUG thread on this. Ultimately he got what he was looking for using Moersch SE7 (I think it's 7) with MGWT and Selenium. The tone was what I'd call "steely". He posted some test prints of wedges in the thread.

[AndreasT]

I am willing to mix my own Ansco 130 in the near future. What I was wondering about since it is supposed to last a long time is it feasible to mix a working solution and have a replenisher solution with less Bromide to top up the working solution and keep its properties. At least more or less.