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  1. #21

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    Are you seeing yellowing in wash water or later? If you are seeing this yellowing thing during wash... read on...

    If you are using direct sulfide toner using manufacturer's recommended dilutions, curious things happen. It will tone in the toner bath. When you *think* you are done and put it in wash water, it speeds up and moves toward more toning effect. It may look like yellowing but it's actually toning more and more from black into light brown.

    To stop this, you don't do acid/alkaline thing. You make a 10% solution of sodium sulfite (aka strong HCA) and dip the print after toning is done to your liking. That'll stop it right way. This is the method I use when I want a precise control.

    Roger (who posted above) have a different method. He uses much weaker solution to tone then washes it after it's done. He has his system calibrated so that this toning faster in water effect does not happen.

    Again, PH has nothing to do with it and it is unlike developer where acid will stop the action.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  2. #22
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    I have seen yellowing after toning and washing with Ilford MGWT FB and direct sulfide toning. It was definitely yellowing, not toning, as the white borders were very obviously affected. What was puzzling is that sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. Turned out that the process seems very sensitive to fixer exhaustion. Fixer that tested fine with hypo check but had been used a bit, but not overused according to my past experience, would result in this yellowing. Fresh fixer did not.

    The good news is that re-fixing and washing seems to remove the yellow, but doesn't affect the toning.

    I now limit fixer use to no more than 15 sheets of 8x10 per quart of film strength (no hardener) Rapid Fixer. I began to see this yellowing at about 20 8x10s.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    I have seen yellowing after toning and washing with Ilford MGWT FB and direct sulfide toning. It was definitely yellowing, not toning, as the white borders were very obviously affected. What was puzzling is that sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. Turned out that the process seems very sensitive to fixer exhaustion. Fixer that tested fine with hypo check but had been used a bit, but not overused according to my past experience, would result in this yellowing. Fresh fixer did not.

    The good news is that re-fixing and washing seems to remove the yellow, but doesn't affect the toning.

    I now limit fixer use to no more than 15 sheets of 8x10 per quart of film strength (no hardener) Rapid Fixer. I began to see this yellowing at about 20 8x10s.
    Refixing removes the yellow?? Really, if that works that would make me a happy man. Since I have a few "yellow" prints now.

  4. #24
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasT View Post
    Refixing removes the yellow?? Really, if that works that would make me a happy man. Since I have a few "yellow" prints now.
    Well, it did with MINE. Worth a try anyway. Your yellowing might not be the same as what I saw, but not much to lose other than a tiny bit of fixer capacity and some time.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    Are you seeing yellowing in wash water or later? If you are seeing this yellowing thing during wash... read on...

    If you are using direct sulfide toner using manufacturer's recommended dilutions, curious things happen. It will tone in the toner bath. When you *think* you are done and put it in wash water, it speeds up and moves toward more toning effect. It may look like yellowing but it's actually toning more and more from black into light brown.

    To stop this, you don't do acid/alkaline thing. You make a 10% solution of sodium sulfite (aka strong HCA) and dip the print after toning is done to your liking. That'll stop it right way. This is the method I use when I want a precise control.

    Roger (who posted above) have a different method. He uses much weaker solution to tone then washes it after it's done. He has his system calibrated so that this toning faster in water effect does not happen.

    Again, PH has nothing to do with it and it is unlike developer where acid will stop the action.
    Thank you, how long does sodium sulfite last? Not that long if I recall. I actually use a very weak toner solution 1+100 and tone very short. I like the idea of only having a hint of colour. Then again maybe that strengthens the idea of toning in the wash. I will try some things tomorrow. I have to get to the bottom of this. I have used this toner for a while now and this is a first for me so really a bother.

  6. #26

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    I don't know how long it lasts. I know HCA degrades quickly when exposed to air and it's the same active ingredient. I keep mine in tightly capped bottle. I'll let you know when it dies....
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  7. #27
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    Ok, thank you all. I will post my new results.

  8. #28
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    The question would be, are the borders also yellowing? If they are, it isn't toning, which affects only image areas. (There are some dyes that are marketed as toners but this isn't one of them.) If white unexposed borders are yellowing, something else is going on. If the print image areas just look too yellow but the borders are not (compare to an untoned print) then it could be what I ran into. I'm not sure why sulfide toning makes inadequate fixing more obvious or fresh fixer more critical (my fixer use was well within the listed capacity) but it sure seems to do so in my experience.

  9. #29
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    Well to my horror I have found out my paper is fogged. Very slightly which I did not notice. Only after bleaching a black scratch away on the white border did I see it. Very slight like I wrote but damn it of course toned with.
    I brought myself some sodium sulfit anyway, should I mix it with Distilled water if I make a ca. 2% solution.
    How do I know if it is no good anymore? What happens to it when it goes bad?

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