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  1. #471

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    Dimezone-S= No shipping by mail or outside the USA,UPS ground only (Photoformulary).

  2. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Johnson View Post
    Dimezone-S= No shipping by mail or outside the USA,UPS ground only (Photoformulary).
    If you are located in Europe, Fototechnik Suvatlar sells it ... all hope is not lost if PF doesn't ship.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  3. #473

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Johnson View Post
    Dimezone-S= No shipping by mail or outside the USA,UPS ground only (Photoformulary).
    FIXED: THEY WILL NOW SHIP IT EVERYWHERE.

    I emailed Photoformulary and they fixed this mistake. Check their website now, and you'll see no shipping-restriction on Dimezone S. Emails are below.

    Mark Overton

    -------------- Emails -------------------

    Hi Mark
    I have updated the Dimezone S. All should be better now.
    Sherry

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Overton, Mark
    To: sherry@photoformulary.com
    Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:12 PM
    Subject: Wrong MSDS for Dimezone-S, plus shipping-restriction mistake

    Hi Sherry (or whomever),

    1. The MSDS on your web site for Dimezone S is for some moderately dangerous liquid, and not for Dimezone S which is a powder.

    2. Shipping for Dimezone S is USA-only UPS-Ground-only. Thatís also probably a mistake based on the MSDS above. Dimezone S is a powder of low toxicity.

    Some folks in Europe would like to buy Dimezone S from you, but they canít because of the shipping restriction. Correcting these errors would boost your sales of Dimezone S.

    Thanks,

    Mark Overton

  4. #474

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    Good news: Itís been three weeks, and there is still no evidence of crystallization in the Dimezone-version of Trial-130119. In the past, Iíve always seen crystallization start within a week or two, so itís probably stable.

    Crystallization seems to be a function of the alkalinity of the concentrate, and thatís controlled by the ratio of sodium metaborate (SM) to ascorbic acid (AA). D316ís SM/AA-ratio is 2.2/4.5 = 0.489. Trial-130119ís ratio is 1.5/3.5 = 0.429. Iíve noticed a white smudge on the bottom of the beaker when mixing D316 at temperatures over 80C. Thatís the beginning of crystallization, so D316 is on the border. I believe Trial-130119 backs off some from that border, which is enough to allow the use of Dimezone S.

    I think Iíll abandon Phenidone and use Dimezone S instead. Hereís why:

    1. Dimezone S is obtainable everywhere for a reasonable price. PhotoFormulary.com now ships it world-wide. So does Fototechnik Suvatlar, and thanks to Rudeofus for pointing that out.
    2. Dimezone S gives a sharper toe with some films. Delta 400 in particular has a significantly softer toe with Phenidone, unless the AA is reduced so the AA/Phenidone ratio is about 70. Dimezone S maintains the sharper toe in the presence of more AA.
    3. Dimezone S gives normal fog when used in glycol-based concentrates. For Delta 400, Phenidone raises fog as much as 0.10. For most films, Phenidoneís glycol-induced fog-rise is around .07-.08, but itís as low as .02 for a few films such as Tri-X and Tmax-400.
    4. Dimezone S stores better.
    5. Dimezone Sís image-quality is at least as good as Phenidone.
    6. It looks like the crystallization problem with Dimezone S has been solved.

    I can see no reason to use Phenidone. Do you?

    Mark Overton

  5. #475

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    Do you have any info on the effect of Dimezone-S on low speed films as was reported for DS-10?
    http://web.archive.org/web/200801160...rain_developer

  6. #476

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Johnson View Post
    Do you have any info on the effect of Dimezone-S on low speed films as was reported for DS-10?
    http://web.archive.org/web/200801160...rain_developer
    I wonder if that reported effect was due to Dimezone-S or whether it would have occurred with phenidone also.

  7. #477

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    Quote Originally Posted by john_s View Post
    I wonder if that reported effect was due to Dimezone-S or whether it would have occurred with phenidone also.
    Alan and John: That's an interesting question. XTOL does fine, and it uses Dimezone-S. But its pH is 8.20. The pH of DS-10 is 8.00, which those slow films might not have appreciated. Based on your postings, I'll start with slow films when I do roll-tests again. The concentrate I'm experimenting with below has a pH of 8.08:

    Propylene Glycol ..................... 12.2 g (grams, not ml)
    Sodium Metaborate 4 mol ...... 1.8 g
    Ascorbic Acid .......................... 4.2 g
    Dimezone-S ............................ 0.09 g

    A litre of developer contains 18 g of concentrate and 45 g of sodium sulfite with pH = 8.08.

    Iíll call this ď212DĒ. 212 is the mixing-date and the ďDĒ means Dimezone. The amount Dimezone-S will change a little to adjust dev-times to be close to D316. My first test-strip (Tri-X) had higher than expected density. There's always a surprise in this business. The SM/AA ratio is 0.429, the same as Trial-130119, so itís the same concentrate with less Dimezone; you simply use more of it. The composition of this is similar to D316 and its pH is the same, so the testing and times for D316 should also apply to 212D.

    Mark Overton

  8. #478

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    I think too muuch is being made of the fact that DS-10 is not suitable for slow films. It was optimized for medium and fast speed films and therefore one should not expect the best results with slow films. Like most things in photography there are always tradeoffs to be made.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 02-14-2013 at 09:52 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

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  9. #479

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    D-316 1 year keeping test results

    I have now completed this 12 month keeping test in which ~20ml D-316 concentrate in a 200ml bottle was exposed to air for ~30 min about once a month (1 year sample).
    (1) HP5+ was developed in different quite fresh 2 months old D-316 for 2 x Xtol 1+0 time.
    (2) HP5+ was developed in the above mentioned 1 year sample of D-316 for 2 x Xtol 1+0 time.

    There is little difference between the negatives from (1) and (2) except there is a slight loss of density in the negs from (2), the 1 year sample.

    Considering that this is a rather extreme test using only a small quantity of D-316 in relation to the size of the bottle, which was opened many times, and it is unlikely anyone would repeat these extremes in practice, IMO this is a satisfactory result.I believe Mark is running a keeping test which I hope would more closely represent conditions of practical use,and there may be results to come from this later.

    Regarding the chemistry of deterioration of D-316,
    Ascorbate oxidation is probably the cause of the slight loss in density.
    Ascorbate hydrolysis is in my experience negligible, I once had a 50g/L solution of sodium ascorbate in a full sealed glass bottle that was still active after 5 years.
    Phenidone oxidation probably only occurs after all the ascorbate is oxidized.
    Phenidone hydrolysis is pretty slow, I once had a full sealed bottle of Mytol that took over 3 years to lose activity.

    It can be seen that in the 1 year sample the concentrate has gone orange, I suspect this comes from ascorbate oxidation and will run a test using sodium ascorbate solution with nothing else to see if this can be reproduced.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails D-316 concentrate.jpg   D-316 concentrate @ 1 year.jpg  

  10. #480

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    Alan, thanks again for doing this 1-year test. Frankly, I'm surprised it did that well considering how orange it's become. I guess it's more robust than I thought. Even yellowing was making me concerned, but orange? My current formula is similar to D-316, so your results should apply to it. If a bottle were half-full on average, and opened for only 5 minutes when used, and kept refrigerated or frozen, I'd say it would last a few years.

    Also, unlike XTOL which dies clear, the concentrate's colour tells us its state. Clear or yellow is okay. Orange means develop a little longer. Red probably means it's too far gone. Nice to know *before* developing film...

    Mark Overton



 

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