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  1. #21
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nworth View Post
    ISO 9001 certification (which must be renewed periodically) assures that the firm has the procedures in place to deal with problems. Although those procedures also help to prevent problems, they can not guarantee that problems will not come up. Certification checks that the procedures are followed, but when away from the intense period around certification, it is hard to guarantee how well the procedures are followed. Some firms do very well, some not so well. Those that constantly adhere to the 9001 standard usually have exceptionally well run organizations, although they may be overly bureaucratic.
    Yep. As a former QA inspector trained in ISO 9000/9001 I can state that getting people to adhere to it can be damned difficult if they don't want to. I regularly had loud arguments with one plant manager who said I wasn't a team player, and to whom I countered he wasn't my team captain. I received so much harassment and even verbal threats from his underlings that I took to cataloging them and reporting them to HR every time they happened, including the exact language used. HR knew if anyone tried to get me canned the company would have some real problems, so they tried to get people to shut up, with only some success.
    In another place I worked I was physically assaulted by the shop manager. It just happened to be that one of his own machine operators had asked me to look at some parts, which I was doing when he became irate and threw me out of his shop, so his sense of timing was particularly bad. He got severely reamed by the CEO and transferred to a department where he was no longer in charge of anything- an outcome I was satisfied with.

    Both places were fully certified, but in both there had been a history of intimidation and marginalizing the QA departments- something certification didn't change. What was different in me from most other inspectors was I had worked as a machinist long before I became an inspector, so the machine shop couldn't browbeat me or pull the wool over my eyes the way they could with others. I was their equal, and knew it. So they figured by making me miserable I'd quit. What it did do was increase my resolve to hold the line, and cause me to always keep my ass covered. I left the first place for a better job, the second went out of business and we all lost our jobs. But I left those places knowing I upheld the certification as I was required to by our ISO manual, which many inspectors didn't.

    Sorry to say, ISO 9000/9001 is often in practice more like a statement of intent, than a binding document. It's supposed to be binding, in that if it's specified in manufacturing contracts it's part of the contract and must be followed; but the attitude far too often toward QA is "Who's gonna tell, if you don't?"

    Bottom line, it's the sincerity and resolve of the people in charge that determines if the ISO certification means anything or not.
    Last edited by lxdude; 07-30-2012 at 12:46 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  2. #22
    Leigh B's Avatar
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    Do you mean B&W films, as in Black & White?

    B+W is a German company that makes filters and related items. They don't make film.

    - Leigh
    “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” - Plato

  3. #23
    JPD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh B View Post
    Do you mean B&W films, as in Black & White?

    B+W is a German company that makes filters and related items. They don't make film.
    B&W was a swedish store chain. They never made film.
    J. Patric Dahlén

  4. #24
    ath
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh B View Post
    Do you mean B&W films, as in Black & White?

    B+W is a German company that makes filters and related items. They don't make film.

    - Leigh
    To be precise B+W is a brand, the company is Jos. Schneider Optische Werke GmbH
    Regards,
    Andreas

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    Bottom line, it's the sincerity and resolve of the people in charge that determines if the ISO certification means anything or not.
    Amen...

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    Sorry to say, ISO 9000/9001 is often in practice more like a statement of intent, than a binding document. It's supposed to be binding, in that if it's specified in manufacturing contracts it's part of the contract and must be followed; but the attitude far too often toward QA is "Who's gonna tell, if you don't?"

    Bottom line, it's the sincerity and resolve of the people in charge that determines if the ISO certification means anything or not.
    I have with and for companies that got the SO 9000/9001 accreditation, and then went back to what they were doing before. They just wanted the accreditation for the bragging rights.
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    I have with and for companies that got the SO 9000/9001 accreditation, and then went back to what they were doing before. They just wanted the accreditation for the bragging rights.
    ... and those bagging rights can be quite valuable when bidding on contracts. ISO 9000 accreditation is very impressive to most source selection teams. The challenge can be when the contract is executed -- when the rubber meets the road. If the company is really committed to the quality process then all goes well; if not or if those processes aren't fully integrated in all divisions, then it might not go well.

  8. #28
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    I have with and for companies that got the SO 9000/9001 accreditation, and then went back to what they were doing before. They just wanted the accreditation for the bragging rights.
    Specifically those bragging rights translate into money.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  9. #29

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    For ISO 9001 ( at least in the UK, presumably everywhere ) you get audited big style every year, you have to earn the right to keep your accreditation, you have to correct every 'deviation' from the procedural steps.

    ISO 9001 is a lot of work....but it is obviously is a huge benefit, to the products and to the business, we also run TQM which is a TOTAL QUALITY MANAGEMENT discipline, in reality it means everyone is responsible for quality... at the end of the day quality products enhance your reputation and brand and significantly for most businesses reduce waste, which in the photo coating industry can be a very high due to the nature of the manufacturing process ( meaning you have manufacture an interim product that turns into something else ) where we have zero defect / zero risk regime, up to 10% of what you coat may never leave the factory, thats a lot of film and paper.

    Simon ILFORD photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

  10. #30
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    We have ISO 9001 (quality management), ISO 13485 (medical), ISO TS 16949 (automotive), OHSAS 18001 (occupational health) and ISO 14001 (environmental management).

    The idea of having all of those certificates is that customers and potential customers can tell if you are the sort of company they want to deal with without having to do their own audits. i.e. they trust BSI to do the audits for them. The reality though is that most customer come and audit us anyway!


    Steve.

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