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  1. #1
    Andre Noble's Avatar
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    Which Current Black and White Films have Incorporated Development Accelerants?

    Two questions:

    1) Which Current Black and White Films have Incorporated Development Accelerants?


    2) Which Current Black and White Films do not not have Incorporated Development Accelerants?


    Replies from those who are knowledgeable most needed. Thanks
    Andre Noble, Beverly Hills California http://andrenoble.com/

  2. #2

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    I'm interested in this... presumably to work out whether pre-wetting affects dev times?

  3. #3
    Leigh B's Avatar
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    I've never heard of a developer-incorporated film in over 50 years of developing film.

    Many papers include a developing agent. Those commonly have "Rapid" in the product name.

    - Leigh
    “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” - Plato

  4. #4
    PhotoJim's Avatar
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    There's no need for development agents or accelerators in films. Papers sometimes incorporate them to allow sped-up activation processing. With film, that's not particularly useful.
    Jim MacKenzie - Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

    A bunch of Nikons; Feds, Zorkis and a Kiev; Pentax 67-II (inherited from my deceased father-in-law); Bronica SQ-A; and a nice Shen Hao 4x5 field camera with 3 decent lenses that needs to be taken outside more. Oh, and as of mid-2012, one of those bodies we don't talk about here.

    Favourite film: do I need to pick only one?

  5. #5

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    Paper only, never film.

    Do not presoak. Ilford and probably other films have agents to ensure even absorption of developer which a presoak will remove.

    The idea is to immerse the film fully as fast as possible. Plastic tanks do this by design. Stainless if you drop the loaded reel into a tank already filled with developer. For single reel and maybe double you may get away without, but sooner or later you will mark it. Larger tanks always have lift rods for this reason.

    The only time to presoak is if you will hand interleave sheet film to prevent sticking.

    No manufacturer suggests a presoak in their instructions. They know better than people on internet forums.

  6. #6
    zsas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Moravec View Post
    No manufacturer suggests a presoak in their instructions. They know better than people on internet forums.
    Maybe amend to say almost all manufacturers. For eg Efke reccomends a presoak with some film:

    "....it is recommended to presoak..."

    Per:
    http://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/MACO_IR820c_AURA.pdf
    Andy

  7. #7
    Andre Noble's Avatar
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    I have seen references to incorporated accelerants in black and white film on this and other threads on the web.

    Are there any former Eastman Kodak or Agfa film/chemical guys in the forum who can give more definitive answers?
    Andre Noble, Beverly Hills California http://andrenoble.com/

  8. #8
    MattKing's Avatar
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    If I understand this correctly ........

    "Incorporated Development Accelerants" are not the same as "Incorporated Developers".

    To my knowledge, no current films (or even films of the recent past) have Developers incorporated in them. In addition, no current papers have developers incorporated in them, although there are "developer-like" components incorporated in some emulsions, in very low quantities, to help adjust contrast.

    As emulsions are essentially ever-changing, almost liquid "soups", I expect the reference to "Development Accelerants" is a reference to emulsion components intended to maintain speed and contrast as the film ages. I would guess that all current/modern films would have such incorporated.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  9. #9

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    I have always presoaked every single type of film I have ever used, and have yet to hear any logical
    argument why I shouldn't. Since I mostly tray dev sheet film, the alternative would seem to
    be courting disaster - the sheets would either stick together, or they'd have to be fed into the tray
    so slowly that the sheets would suffer disparate dev times. You want them easily rotated before they hit the actual developer, and with any surface tension or clinging bubble issues.

  10. #10
    Leigh B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    I have always presoaked every single type of film I have ever used, and have yet to hear any logical
    argument why I shouldn't.
    The instructions for Diafine say definitely NOT to presoak. Doing so will ruin the operation of the developer.

    Diafine works by having Solution A soaked up by the dry emulsion. If the emulsion is already wet, that can't happen.

    I use Diafine for all my tray development, and it works flawlessly.

    - Leigh
    “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” - Plato

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