Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,930   Posts: 1,585,396   Online: 1014
      
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    448

    Storage life of ammonium thiosulfate 60% solution?

    I can move it to glass bottles if it makes a difference, but it'll take me quite a while to use two liters...

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    bsdunek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,156
    Images
    211
    I keep the part I'm not using in a completely full (no air space) bottle. Mine are plastic juice bottles (PET). I test with Hypocheck every time I use it and with a piece of film occasionally. I've found it will last a year with no problems. It is in a cool dark place when stored.
    Bruce

    Moma don't take my Kodachrome away!
    Oops, Kodak just did!
    For all practical purposes, they've taken Kodak away.


    BruceCSdunekPhotography.zenfolio.com

  3. #3
    David Lyga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA USA
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,350
    Why am I always an iconoclast, disagreeing with everything that is 'supposed' to be so? You are not 'supposed' to use old liquid fixer. I disagree.

    I have always used old, old liquid fixer and have never worried about the detritus that floats around (sulphur?). I strain it and have NEVER experienced lower energy, bad negatives, or other deleterious aspects. Use it, but strain it first. Perhaps storing it in either glass or PET plastic FILLED TO THE RIM will prevent further problems.

    In the spring of this year I did something that might get me (finally) committed: On three separate occasions I made a train trip from Philadelphia to NYC to B&H (conveniently one long block from Penn Station) to buy (on each occasion) a 25 gallon size container of Flexicolor Fixer and Replenisher (the very best fixer on the market, folks: needs less dilution than other liquid fixers and does not smell).

    Each one of these parcels weighs 58 pounds and it was truly heroic getting it all onto the train, then the subway in Philadelphia to, finally, my self-storage facility. But, at USD 40 per trip, that was mighty cheap to own a lifetime of fixer. I consider the (total) $120 to be well spent. And, no, I am NOT worried about it going bad. But I was sorely disappointed with the fact that each 25 gallon size was packaged in only one container. It made balancing that weight very, very difficult. It's done and I am happy. NOW: commit me! - David Lyga

    B&H: KOFFR25G
    KODAK: 1597392
    Last edited by David Lyga; 08-21-2012 at 09:24 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #4
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,556
    Images
    65
    I have 60% Ammonium Thiosulfate, in the original plastic shipping container, and it is over 5 years old (partly filled). It is still clear. As made, we found that the solution was very very stable. As it goes bad, it forms a cloudy solution with the odor of rotten eggs. The fine particles, if trapped in your film, can cause blemishes in the images.

    PE

  5. #5
    David Lyga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA USA
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,350
    Well, perhaps that might be true, PE, but I have never had that particle problem because I filter very carefully. But your warning is good to have out there as a caveat. Although, at least theoretically, 'cloudy' particles might not be ABLE to be filtered, I have always managed to obtain spotless negatives after washing well. I do not know if either of us is really 'right', but your warning might be good to heed. - David Lyga

  6. #6
    brucemuir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Metro DC area, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,264
    Images
    4
    David, I've been eyeing one of the 25 gallon cubes and will need one soon. I was lucky to get one of the last gallon jugs of concentrate.
    I'm in DC and Adorama will ship it and I don't think it was that expensive when I checked last.

    BTW I've had 5-6 year old Kodafix concentrate that was starting to go bad but was still usable. I did have to toss some.

  7. #7
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,556
    Images
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by David Lyga View Post
    Well, perhaps that might be true, PE, but I have never had that particle problem because I filter very carefully. But your warning is good to have out there as a caveat. Although, at least theoretically, 'cloudy' particles might not be ABLE to be filtered, I have always managed to obtain spotless negatives after washing well. I do not know if either of us is really 'right', but your warning might be good to heed. - David Lyga
    To answer several things here at one time...

    Ammonium Thiosulfate solution as shipped is slightly alkaline, but Kodak and other acidic fixes are shipped on the acid side. The acidity, even with sulfite, will allow - or lead to - decomposition of Thiosulfate. This decomposition produces colloidal sulfur, the particles of which aggregate and form larger particles. The larger particles can be filtered out with a fine mesh paper filter, but the individual particles are colloidal and are so fine that they can get into the gelatin and create white dots on images. The spots are mainly seen with 35mm when enlarged, but can be seen in other formats. They are exceedingly tiny.

    This is based on nearly 60 years doing this stuff. So, if you have not seen the problem, just keep going as you are, with bad hypo, and you will see it someday.

    PE

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Switzerland
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    376
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    To answer several things here at one time...

    Ammonium Thiosulfate solution as shipped is slightly alkaline, but Kodak and other acidic fixes are shipped on the acid side. The acidity, even with sulfite, will allow - or lead to - decomposition of Thiosulfate. This decomposition produces colloidal sulfur, the particles of which aggregate and form larger particles. The larger particles can be filtered out with a fine mesh paper filter, but the individual particles are colloidal and are so fine that they can get into the gelatin and create white dots on images. The spots are mainly seen with 35mm when enlarged, but can be seen in other formats. They are exceedingly tiny.

    This is based on nearly 60 years doing this stuff. So, if you have not seen the problem, just keep going as you are, with bad hypo, and you will see it someday.

    PE
    To illustrate your point, here is a scan of a negative I developed two days ago. It was fixed in ammoniumthiosulfate fixer (brand: Amaloco) mixed from a 1,5 year old concentrate stored in a near-empty bottle. The white spots are not dust but tiny black particles in the negative. I learned my lesson.


    APX100 in Rodinal 1:50, 13min @ 20°C, 10sec agitation/minute, water stop bath. Fixed in Amaloco 1:4 for 2min30sec.

    crop:
    And the sign said, "long haired freaky people need not apply"

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    857
    Images
    131
    So, use it for paper fixing. I've been working from a couple 5 gallon bags of Kodak Royalprint fixer, crap floating around and stinking, but works like a charm on paper.

  10. #10
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,556
    Images
    65
    Rich;

    Even there, it can mess up the gloss on paper. Filtration is advised.

    PE

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin