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  1. #1

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    Now, this seriously has me beaten, suggestions as to what is happening here please?

    Okay, this is weird. I was processing another of my recent South Devon Railway images and I realised that the front of the locomotive is not as sharp as I would have expected.
    The image was shot on 5x7 film using a 210mm Apo-Symmar lens at 1/250th sec at f11 on HP5+ film, now I would have expected a sharper image than that recorded, but when I started working on the image in Photoshop CS5 I noticed that the number on the front of the engine was a distinct double image, but nowhere else showed a similar double image, this is not a blurred image such as would normally be expected from too slow a shutter speed. The film was processed in Pyrocat HD for 8 ins at 24 degrees C with a TF-3 alkaline fix. The image was scanned on my Epson V750 scanner with the better scanning film holder. I have checked the negative on a lightbox with an 8x lupe and it is definitely a double image on the negative!

    Full Image: focus was on the sleeper 8 up from the trackside marker as can be seen in the third image:


    SDR: 3205 GWR Collett 0-6-0 5x7 by Ed Bray, on Flickr

    Second image, the locomotive's number at 100% crop


    Third image: Focus point on 8th sleeper from tackside marker, sleeper marked 631.

  2. #2
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Does it look like that on the negative? I would suspect the scanner.

    EDIT:
    I have checked the negative on a lightbox with an 8x lupe and it is definitely a double image on the negative!
    Don't answer that!

    It's quite a light locomotive (relatively!) so it is possible that it moved sideways slightly whilst the shutter was open.
    Although it hasn't quite reached the fishplate join in the tracks which could jolt it over a bit.


    Steve.

  3. #3

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    Was the number that was painted on the plate repainted but not in the same registration?

    http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    It's quite a light locomotive (relatively!) so it is possible that it moved sideways slightly whilst the shutter was open.
    Although it hasn't quite reached the fishplate join in the tracks which could jolt it over a bit.
    Steve.
    That's a possibility although I would have expected a blur between the 2 sets of numbers. Thanks Steve.


    Quote Originally Posted by jeffreyg View Post
    Was the number that was painted on the plate repainted but not in the same registration?

    http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/
    I have another image from last week of that loco so will have a look at that under the lupe. Thanks Jeffrey.

  5. #5
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Looking at it again, there is nothing else around the smokebox door with the same amount of movement showing. This leads me to think that perhaps the number plate is not permanently fixed but is just dropped onto a couple of brackets and only that moved.


    Steve.

  6. #6

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    The front of something moving, if you're close to it, will always appear to be moving faster than the back. I can't remember the name of the phenomenon, I'll have a look...

  7. #7

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    It is very possible that because the front of the Locomotive is closest to the camera, the shutter speed used was not enough the completely get it sharp, or there was lateral movement in the loco because of a track defect which caused it to lurch slightly giving the double image.

    If it was lateral movement, the part of the image below the boiler would not have had so much movement, so would not show up in such a significant way.

  8. #8
    Marc Akemann's Avatar
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    I'm with jeffreyg on this where the numbers may have been painted twice. The original numbers were off-center and perhaps they simply repainted numbers 3205 to center them on the number plate.

    If it's a matter of the number plate moving, then the whole number plate would be doubled, too. Not just the numbers.

    Just a guess...

    Marc

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by FilmSprocket View Post
    I'm with jeffreyg on this where the numbers may have been painted twice. The original numbers were off-center and perhaps they simply repainted numbers 3205 to center them on the number plate.

    If it's a matter of the number plate moving, then the whole number plate would be doubled, too. Not just the numbers.

    Just a guess...

    Marc
    Goes to show how obsessed with details some photographers can be! The whole front of the train has motion blur! I can't find the name of this specific effect, really annoying. It's basically an effect of perspective, in the same way that a train approaching a station from a distance seems to be moving slowly - it then appears to be moving much faster as it gets closer to you and passes through the station. It can also happen in seascapes, with the waves crashing in front appearing blurred, while the distant waves or perhaps a boat, doesn't appear to have any motion blur. I'd really like to hear the scintific explanation, because I'm not sure why a perceptual effect translates as 'hard evidence' in a photograph.
    Last edited by batwister; 08-27-2012 at 09:54 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #10

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    the trees behind the engine in that close-up of the numbers don't show motion blur while the numbers and other details of the engine do.

    Face it, the train was moving too fast. One would think 1/250 would be fast enough with the train coming at you but apparently it was moving across the field of view also and that movement was enough to cause blur.

    looks like you got another day of shooting trains ahead of you -- sucks, eh?

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