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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMagic View Post
    The dynamic ragne is good when you learn the film to know. Here is the 135-version developed in Neofin Doku: http://tmax100.com/bilder/arkivbilder/moldefjord.jpg

    I get similar results when developing it in Rodinal 1:300 The developer from Adox gives me nothing but shit, so that developer i have dumped in the sewer. Also my tests with BTZS plotter shows me that Rodinal or Neofin Doku is the developer suited best for my way of creating an image.
    Are You talking about Adotech I or II?
    I never had issues with any of them.
    Neofin Doku / Tetenal Dokumol works too, as it worked with Tech Pan back in the days, now with ATP.
    IMHO, Neither Rodinal nor the Tetenal could squeeze as much as the developer that SPUR made for those films.
    However, I sometimes like to use Rodinal or Dokumol with CMS20 or Copex, If I am in mood to shoot at ISO 3
    Rodinal gives some interesting sparkle with any film, even at a cost, hands down.

  2. #12

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    It would be interesting to see a roll of tech pan 120 in technidol compared to CMS 20 and the like.

    Ed

  3. #13
    Klainmeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMagic View Post
    The dynamic ragne is good when you learn the film to know. Here is the 135-version developed in Neofin Doku: http://tmax100.com/bilder/arkivbilder/moldefjord.jpg

    I get similar results when developing it in Rodinal 1:300 The developer from Adox gives me nothing but shit, so that developer i have dumped in the sewer. Also my tests with BTZS plotter shows me that Rodinal or Neofin Doku is the developer suited best for my way of creating an image.
    Thanks for the info, I'd like to play with this film as well and the Rodinal looks doable. Beautiful picture! Wow.
    K.S. Klain

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdSawyer View Post
    It would be interesting to see a roll of tech pan 120 in technidol compared to CMS 20 and the like.

    Ed
    Sensitivity is different (superpan vs orthopan), speed as well.. as for granularity CMS20 wins, no chance for Tech Pan.
    I liked the extra sensitivity in Tech Pan, very interesting film...

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by georg16nik View Post
    You get better details shadows at 10 highlight are ok but You have to watch it, its a bit more demanding towards changes in development but You probably already know that. Using distilled water help to isolate issues, if any. I distill water for my darkroom entirely anyway..

    Agfa Copex Rapid tonality is better, no issues with halation, is a bit grainier than CMS20 but Copex is faster film.

    Last year there was a thread about the highest resolving films, papers that might be interesting for You.
    On page 6 Henning Serger joined us and shared some info from his lab testing of various films, CMS20 and Copex among the many.

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/9...y-paper-6.html

    Hi George! It's Henning I've been talking to about this and has provided lots of advice :-) Might try the Spur developer next..

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    Hi George! It's Henning I've been talking to about this and has provided lots of advice :-) Might try the Spur developer next..
    Hi Tim, good to hear You got in touch with Henning!
    CMS20's, Copex and ATP got lots of admirers in Europe.

    Have fun

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post

    Well the film outresolved 4x5 delta 100 (oh, and trounced the IQ180 on the way there) and started on toward 10x8 - didn't get too close but it was definitely trying.

    The amazing thing about the film that I was stunned by was the fact that it has almost zero grain and also no halation. To give you an idea of just how much detail it shows - you can read the engraving on the watch strap of my colleague Mark Banks..

    Here's a comparison of various microscope shots and scans..

    http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static/tmp/cms20-vs.jpg

    Tim
    Hello Tim,

    as always, excellent work from you! Congrats. And thanks for sharing!

    I know this film very well: In combination with the dedicated developer, it is a league of its own.

    I am using high resolution BW films since 1985. At that time Kodak Technical Pan, developed in Tetenal Noefin Doku.
    During the last years I've intensively tested this film (it is current Agfa-Gevaert HDP microfilm) and its brother, the Agfa Copex Rapid.
    And I've tested all the special developers from Spur (photo engineer Heribert Schain in Germany).
    The Adotech developer is also designed and produced by Spur / Heribert Schain for Adox.

    With the Agfa HDP / Adox CMS 20 film I successfully reached the physical diffraction limit at f5,6 with both my Zeiss 2/50 ZF and my Nikkor AI-S 1,8/50.
    240 Lp/mm, clearly separated lines, and that at an object contrast of only 1:4, two stops !!
    That is simply breathtaking!

    I've projected these 35mm images at about 4,5 meter x 3 meter with a slide projector. And you can see every tiny detail when you put 'your nose on the projection screen'! There is no real enlargement limit for this stuff.

    Dominique Ventzke ( www.high-end-scans.de ) and me have compared this film (and Copex Rapid) in 35mm with medium format 6x6 and large format 4x5".
    35mm CMS 20 surpassed 4x5" Adox CHS 100 film! More detail with the 35mm CMS 20.
    We needed Acros to get a little more detail with 4x5" compared to 35mm HDP / CMS 20.

    Agfa Copex Rapid 35mm, developed in its dedicated Spur Modular UR New developer, outperformed 6x6 FP4+, 6x6 APX 100 and 6x6 RPX 100.

    Some test results from our resolution tests (Nikon F6, MLU, MC-30, 1/250s, focus bracketing, Zeiss ZF 2/50, f5,6, object contrast 1:4; the first resolution value represents the number of clearly separated lines, the second one the resolution limit where still a contrast difference can be seen):

    Adox CMS 20 / Spur Orthopan UR developed in: Spur Nano Edge, Spur Nanospeed UR, Spur Modular UR, Adotech: 240 - 260 Lp/mm

    Agfa Copex Rapid; ISO 40/17°; Spur Modular UR New: 165 – 180 Lp/mm

    TMX, developed in HRX-3: 135 - 150 Lp/mm

    Fuji Velvia 50: 110 – 125 Lp/mm
    Fuji Sensia 100: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
    Fuji Provia 100F: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
    Fuji Astia 100F: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
    Fuji Velvia 100: 125 – 140 Lp/mm
    Fuji Velvia 100F: 125 – 140 Lp/mm
    Kodak E100G: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
    Kodak Elitechrome 100: 120 – 135 Lp/mm
    Fuji Provia 400X: 105 – 115 Lp/mm

    Fuji Superia Reala 100: 105 – 115 Lp/mm
    Fuji Pro 160 C: 100 – 115 Lp/mm
    Kodak Ektar: 90 – 105 Lp/mm

    To get the best tonality (ideal characteristic curve) with CMS 20 I recommend (same as with every other film-developer combination) to do the classic zone system exposure series to evaluate the characteristic curve.

    At ISO 20 and normal development times CMS 20 show a very strong S-shaped curve with loss in shadow and highlight detail. This film is not a real ISO 20 film.
    To get a much better, more linear characteristic curve and both better shadow and highlight detail reducing the exposure (lower ISO) at reduced development times is the way to go.
    Then you get very good tonality with good shadow and highlight detail with this film.

    Agfa Copex Rapid is much easier to handle in this respect:
    With its dedicated Spur Modular UR New developer you get excellent tonality (linear characteristic curve like normal films) already at ISO 40/17° (with 35mm) and ISO 50/18° (with 120; the current roll film charge has 1/3 stop more speed).

    Grain of Copex Rapid is comparable with T-Max 100, developed in a fine grain developer (maybe Copex is even a bit finer grained, depending on the developer used for TMX, but the difference is small). But resolution and sharpness are much better with CoRa, compared to TMX, Delta 100, Acros.

    Agfa Copex Rapid (CoRa) is also very good reversal processed as a BW slide. Photostudio13 in Germany www.photostudio13.de is offering that in their Scala reversal process.
    CMS 20 can also be reversal processed in the Scala process. Results are a bit contrasty, with less detail in the shadows and highlights compared to CoRa.

    Best regards,
    Henning

  8. #18
    Bruce Robbins's Avatar
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    Thanks for that Henning. Have you made darkroom prints from 35mm CMS and compared them with same size prints from 5x4? I'd be interested to know if CMS has greater sharpness and better tonality than the large format in a print.
    The Online Darkroom
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  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Robbins View Post
    Thanks for that Henning. Have you made darkroom prints from 35mm CMS and compared them with same size prints from 5x4? I'd be interested to know if CMS has greater sharpness and better tonality than the large format in a print.
    Hello Bruce,

    yes, I always make darkroom prints from 35mm CMS 20. With excellent APO enlarging lenses you can print this film as big as you want, the sky is the limit. The bottleneck for big enlargements with this film is not the film itself, but more the printing capabilities of the photographer / printer. Exact focus, optimal flatness of film and paper are of course essential to fully exploit the outstanding potential of this film. But as I always work very exactly in my darkroom, no matter if I print from PanF+, Delta 100, TMY-2, CMS 20, CoRa or any other film, at least for me there is no significant difference in printing workflow with these films compared to conventional films.
    35mm CMS 20 prints compared with CHS 100 4x5", then CMS 20 is the winner. Compared with 4x5" Acros, Delta 100, TMX, I give the conventional films in LF the higher rating.

    Best regards,
    Henning

  10. #20
    Bruce Robbins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henning Serger View Post
    35mm CMS 20 prints compared with CHS 100 4x5", then CMS 20 is the winner. Compared with 4x5" Acros, Delta 100, TMX, I give the conventional films in LF the higher rating.
    Best regards,
    Henning
    That's quite incredible Henning. I have shot a couple of rolls of CMS 20 but my darkroom went out of commission around the same time (long story) and I just scanned a few negs to see what they were like. I ddn't like the tonality but then I hate scanning. That was rating the film at 20 ISO and developing in Adotech. I might try again, rating it at 10 ISO and using my Zeiss lenses with the camera on a tripod to see what it's capable of.

    Sorry to keep asking questions but have you tried CMS 20 in any other developer? I was wondering how Barry Thornton's two-bath might work. I've also read that some people get god results with Diafine.

    Bruce
    The Online Darkroom
    www.theonlinedarkroom.com

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