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  1. #21
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    there is a visual breakdown with the matt that is extremely nice as well it accepts the toner much easier it seems.
    I have made prints lately on both with the same toning treatment and I prefer the matt.
    Looking at the prints untoned I would go to the glossy every single time.



    Quote Originally Posted by brian steinberger View Post
    Then why not just use the glossy version!?

  2. #22

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    My goodness, those toning techniques are daunting and colorful! This morning I worked with Adox Fine Print Premium VC WT. I'm happy again. Excellent micro contrast, complex warm tones and tonal shifts in KRST. At least this one print has preferred cool brown blacks when lightly toned.

    Adox Premium WT cools off more than Ilford WT.

    Ilford's MGIV is ordinary from a tone perspective. Depends on the image and your taste. I had no idea it could tone.

    Ilford products deliver consistent results and quality.
    Last edited by Richard Jepsen; 09-22-2012 at 12:18 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    RJ

  3. #23
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Fiber Paper Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by brian steinberger View Post
    Then why not just use the glossy version!?
    Tongue in cheek, I know, Brian, but I will answer with my thoughts.
    There is a real velvety feel to the matte paper, with luscious and beautiful blacks, which merely look like reflections on the glossy paper. It can be, literally, like charcoal, after toning, and to me glossy will never be so beautiful. Since the matte surface doesn't reflect much light, you can see deeper into the shadows, and I enjoy the hell out of that.

    I also agree with Bob that the matte paper seems to be a bit more sensitive to the toners. While I believe the emulsion is largely the same in glossy and matte, there could be small differences in order to achieve the matte surface.

    Anyway, to me the glossy is great, but the matte is what I love. Suits the mood of my prints better.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  4. #24
    brian steinberger's Avatar
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    Interesting, thanks for clarifying Bob and Thomas, I may just have to try some, although I've never much liked matt papers. I don't care for glossy glossy, like RC glossy though either. FB "glossy" is actually more comparable to RC pearl, and I use these two surfaces for all my work. I did notice in Eddie Ephraums book "Creative Elements" all his prints are on MGIV matt.

  5. #25

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    Matte prints can indeed have a wonderful tactile quality. However since most people display prints under glass/plexi, that quality would normally be lost. Still, matte paper can be very rewarding to print with. I think we sometimes place too much importance on things like D-Max, potentially missing out on other aesthetic qualities.

    MGIV Matte is a great paper. There were quite a few excellent graded matte papers in the "old days".

  6. #26

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    Oh yes, I do remember trying MGIV Matte. As mentioned, it had charcoal like accents. It looked good with high key images.
    RJ

  7. #27
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Fiber Paper Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Jepsen View Post
    Oh yes, I do remember trying MGIV Matte. As mentioned, it had charcoal like accents. It looked good with high key images.
    Interesting. To me it looks best with low key pictures.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  8. #28

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    For me, reductionism utilizing generous white space emphasized the charcoal look. Now I'm curious about matte papers.
    RJ

  9. #29

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    Yesterday I visited with a friend who years ago converted his workflow to digital. He is a skilled digital printer and has several gelatin silver prints in the National Portrait Gallery, Washington DC. Looking at his B&W inkjets and gelatin silver prints I was struck at the rich tonality of fiber B&W paper. I wish I could get the shadow detail he does but I love the analog workflow & look of B&W silver prints viewed in the hand. Viewing the comparison I became more energized to print in the darkroom.

    That brings me to GALERIE, a premium neutral tone paper.

    Has anyone been able to warm up GALERIE or semi-split tone it?
    Last edited by Richard Jepsen; 10-10-2012 at 09:53 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    RJ

  10. #30
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Jepsen View Post
    Yesterday I visited with a friend who years ago converted his workflow to digital. He is a skilled digital printer and has several gelatin silver prints in the National Portrait Gallery, Washington DC. Looking at his B&W inkjets and gelatin silver prints I was struck at the rich tonality of fiber B&W paper. I wish I could get the shadow detail he does but I love the analog workflow & look of B&W silver prints viewed in the hand.

    That brings me to GALERIE. I have limited experience with the paper, maybe 100 sheets total. I tend to like warmish mid - higher tones and cooler shadows. My experience indicates GALERIE is not going to have this look.

    Has anyone been able to warm up GALERIE or to semi split tone it?
    I have limited experience with it too, but from what I've used Galerie (mostly G3), it mostly produces an increase of Dmax with selenium alone. It's super beautiful this way, though. When you use indirect toners (indirect = bleach first), it takes on the toners beautifully, in a way similar to MGIV fiber, but I find it a bit more colorful. Then when you add a second toner on top it really comes alive.
    If you can manage to live with Grade2 and Grade3 paper alone, and find grades in between by adjusting your developer, Galerie is hard to beat. I remember viewing the prints of a talented, yet very private, photographer from Minneapolis. I met her once, and was never able to find her again to continue our conversation. She used a Minox 35GT camera, shot only Ilford XP2-Super film, and printed everything on Galerie 3 and toned in Kodak Selenium 1+3, at 85*F and for several minutes. The prints were lucious, delicate, beautiful, and very rich in their tonality. Her printing skills were magnificent. I can't afford using Galerie continuously, or I probably would be using it more.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

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