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  1. #11
    paul_c5x4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Man View Post
    Tetenal have a sulphide toner however I cannot find any further information on the Tetenal website and suspect that this is a sodium sulphide rather than polysulphide based toner.

    Tetenal MSDS lists the main ingredient of the toner as disodium sulfide - I have some here, and it has the classic "rotten egg" smell...

  2. #12

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    Thiourea easily decomposes to form sulfide ion and is therefore considered a sulfide toner. It has the advantage that it doesn't smell as bad.

    Polysulfide Toner

    This formula produces results similar to Kodak Brown Toner.

    Distilled water 750 ml
    Sodium polysulfide, 30% soln 25.0 ml
    Sodium carbonate, monohydrate 2.4 g
    Water to male 1.0 l

    Use full strength and tone for 15 to 20 min at 20 C. After toning place the print in a 10% soln of sodium sulfite to stop toning and then wash to remove any yellow stain.

    Some people claim that different formula sulfide toners produce slightly different brown colors. If a certain brown tone is critical then you might have to try several formulas.

    There are also hypo-alum toners such as Ilford IT-2. They are easy to make and work better as they age. The toning is slow but can be hastened by heating the bath.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 10-03-2012 at 10:34 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  3. #13

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    I'm producing and selling polysulfide toner in small scale. It's made according to the IPI Silver Lock formula. You can contact me if you are interested.

    Olli

  4. #14

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    Hello,
    I don't know if this can help you: Here in Germany you can obtain "Schwefelleber" = liver of sulfur from a company named "Kremer Pigmente". They sell it for blackening of copper for artistic effects.

  5. #15
    Mr Man's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your replies.

    Jochen: I looked up "Kremer Pigmente" they appear to have a very useful selection of chemicals. what they are selling as "Liver Of Sulfur" is listed as sodium polysulfide while this would be useful for Gerald's recipe it looks like it would be a pain to get it shipped as they ask for ID card details (thankfully we don't have ID cards in the UK) and won't provide an online quote for shipping to the UK. however I will keep them in my bookmarks for future reference.

    Gerald: Thanks for the recipe. I am not a chemist, your recipe calls for 25ml of Sodium polysulfide, 30% soln. The instructions I have to make sodium polysulfide are:
    Make a solution of 5 g of sodium hydroxide in 100 cm3 of water. Heat the sodium hydroxide solution until it is boiling. Add the 8 g of sulphur and a drop of washing up liquid to help the sulphur mix with the aqueous solution. Continue to boil the mixture and stir until the sulphur has dissolved to give a dark red-brown solution of sodium polysulphide. Decant the liquid off any small lumps of sulphur which remain undissolved.
    Does this give me a 100% solution of sodium polysulfide? which I can then mix 7.5 ml sodium polysulfide solution to 17.5ml water to make 25ml of 30% solution.

    I have ordered 100g of potassium sulphide from thrivechem as it is described as Potassium sulphide (poly) which Rose Chemicals describe as potassium polysulphide. It's all a bit confusing, I will let you all know what turns up an if it is of any use.
    I'm A photographer not an artist

  6. #16

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    Hard to say whether your recipe approaches a 30% solution since it does not produce only sodium sulfides but a mixture of sulfide, sulfite, and thiosulfate.

    Sodium polysulfide is not a definite substance but rather a mixture of sulfides, Na2Sn where n = 1 to 5. It can be prepared by dissolving sulfur in a sodium sulfide solution. This must be done slowly and carefully since the reaction is exothermic.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    Sodium polysulfide is not a definite substance but rather a mixture of sulfides, Na2Sn where n = 1 to 5. It can be prepared by dissolving sulfur in a sodium sulfide solution. This must be done slowly and carefully since the reaction is exothermic.
    Hi Gerald, thanks for that.
    I thought sodium polysulfide was probably a bit of a messy concoction as is potasium polysulfide. I didn't know sodium polysulfide could be made by your method of dissolving sulfur in a sodium sulfide solution, which sounds less bother than the sodium hydroxide method, do you have any proportions or quantitys for that as I have some sodium sulfide and can easily get hold of some sulfur
    I'm A photographer not an artist

  8. #18

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    Sodium polysulfide is a mixture of sulfides. In the mixture the amount of each polysulfide decreases as n increases. I would make up a 30% solution of sodium sulfide and keep dissolving sulfur in it until no more will dissolve.

    The structure consists of a chain of sulfur atoms with a sodium at each end. For Na2S4 this would be Na-S-S-S-S-Na. You can have a chain of perhaps a maximum of 6 sulfur atoms. The exact number varies depending on what text you read.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 10-12-2012 at 11:25 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  9. #19
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    Gerald, thanks so much for the information you have provided.

    Now I need to order some sulfur and experiment. The potassium sulphide (poly) order from thrivechem.com is not going well they sent me an e-mail at 16:55 today, three days after the order was placed, telling me I needed to fill out the attached form and supply a scan if a piece of ID to make a purchase. Not a problem but there was no form attached to the e-mail and now they are shut for the weekend, typical British service. I will post results at a later date.
    I'm A photographer not an artist

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