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  1. #11

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    It seems to me that if you have accidentally produced some contrasty negatives (as I used to do by following manufacturers' recommendations- silly me) , then a low contrast graded paper does a better job than dialling in low contrast with VC paper. I'm still using some old stocks of BW and BEW (extra weak contrast) Agfa Brovira, and I am making sure that my new negs are a lot better than my old ones (more exposure, less development).

    Does anyone still make very low contrast graded papers? Or do people now know how to expose and develop film properly?

  2. #12

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    Fred Picker said that a good way to compare VC to graded is expose a sheet of #2 grade, then a sheet of VC but with no filtration, ie as a grade 2; then compare. He said the VC would look like mud. I had presumed VC papers were improved since his time; but I did his test and was surprised at how bad VC looked in comparison. I now use VC for proofing & hard to print negs; and use graded with split development for in between grades. My favorite papers are Forte Fortezo (J&C Classic) and Oriental Seagull.
    van Huyck Photo
    "Progress is only a direction, and it's often the wrong direction"

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughowk
    Fred Picker said that a good way to compare VC to graded is expose a sheet of #2 grade, then a sheet of VC but with no filtration, ie as a grade 2; then compare. He said the VC would look like mud. I had presumed VC papers were improved since his time; but I did his test and was surprised at how bad VC looked in comparison. I now use VC for proofing & hard to print negs; and use graded with split development for in between grades. My favorite papers are Forte Fortezo (J&C Classic) and Oriental Seagull.
    Of course the VC paper would look like mud with no filtration. It was never designed to be used without filtration. The only fair comparison would be to compare a graded paper with VC and the corresponding filter for that grade.

  4. #14
    ann
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    alex,
    are you saying that the Jand C Polywarmtone is the same version of the old polywarmtone. or that it is polywarmtoneplus, which is a different .
    the plus is nice but it is not the same as the original polywarmtone and does not split the same.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb

    I find that graded papers have richer blacks and some are more responsive to process manipulations like water bath development, bleaching, amidol, and such.
    I have not found the richness of blacks to be superior in graded papers. I used to print graded Seagull, Ilford Galerie, and Forte, and then began using VC when I wanted to try split filter printing. I've not used anything else since.

    For my money, Agfa MCC 111, Ilford Warmtone, or Bergger will produce rich blacks equal to any graded paper I've ever tried. The particular developer one uses will also affect the blacks. The only graded paper that might tempt me occasionally if it were still available would be the old Agfa Portriga.

    Larry

  6. #16

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    Of course the VC paper would look like mud with no filtration. It was never designed to be used without filtration. The only fair comparison would be to compare a graded paper with VC and the corresponding filter for that grade.
    For my test I used Oriental Seagull VC RP-F paper & a color head on my Durst enlarger. The data sheet says that, to emulate a grade 2, use 0 Yellow & 0 Magenta. And the results looked like mud compared to a graded #2 paper. Your probably thinking of filters for condenser enlarger.
    van Huyck Photo
    "Progress is only a direction, and it's often the wrong direction"

  7. #17
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    Hi Jarred

    I would agree with David. get sample packs of various papers and test them to the conditions available to you and of work you intend to print in the future,
    I change papers daily depending on the client I am printing for, the style of work and look the photographer wants.
    I have found out that there is no bad paper , just a wrong selection of paper for subject matter.
    I have tried every possible paper and I have a large variety in my darkroom.
    When I am printing a paticular negative or style I will put in two or three different papers to see how they respond to subject matter or negative quality. This way I am continually testing and getting some suprises along the way.
    For example, I had some Elite paper in frezeer storage, and I made a lith print with this paper, the results were outstanding, now I"m very pissed as this paper is no longer out there.
    I just used up the last of my stock of Ilfomar paper, I am now very pissed.
    A year ago I used up the last of my Ecktalure, had to see a doctor over that one.
    I"m rambling but I think you should try all the papers you can so that if our great companions Kodak, Ilford, Forte, Kentmere ( Oh did I mention how pissed I was when sterling Lith stopped production) make a corporate decision to stop supplying us our drugs, you have at least a backup paper to move to.
    Any one saying that One Paper is the best , is taking a very narrow view of our craft, when you have time try all of them and take some chances, you will be suprised.
    I particularly like VC papers as I only print with a three filter method now and the spliting of contrast is fun

  8. #18
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    VC papers are not always grade 2 without filtration: especially as one maker's Grade-2 or not the same as another's. To make a comparison you need to make the best prints you can get on each paper and then compare them - this may well require dialling a different grade for the VC paper. You would have to repeat this for a number of different negatives. Then, you can see if you favour one over the other.

    Cheers, Bob.

  9. #19

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    Bob Carnie,
    Your post makes a lot of sense to me. Would you care to describe your "three filter method " of printing?

    Alan Clark

  10. #20
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    Hi Alan

    I have posted my way , and I believe others in detail over the last few weeks.
    Basically I use a middle filter to get a good basic tone, I print slightly on the light and flat side to get as much mid tone. and highlight detail.
    Then I blast in with grade 5 to give the overall look in contrast density ect.
    I then use the 00 filter to bring down the hard highligts.]
    I find this method much better than 00 and 5 only .
    I use the 5 filters and 00 filters to dodge as well.on a wire just like your dodging tool.

    Burning in with high and low contrast is a breeze with this method.
    so one filter in the enlarger head and the 5 and 00 filter used for effect.
    hope this helps.

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