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  1. #21
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ann
    alex,
    are you saying that the Jand C Polywarmtone is the same version of the old polywarmtone. or that it is polywarmtoneplus, which is a different .
    the plus is nice but it is not the same as the original polywarmtone and does not split the same.
    Hmm. Got me on that one Ann. I will assume the J&C is the same as the current Forte. This is based on a post from J&C a while back where they said their paper and the Forte offering were one and the same.
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
    My Photography Blog

  2. #22
    ann
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    thanks alex, i am sure it is the most recent version , which would be polywarmtoneplus

  3. #23

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    My experiences are certainly not as comprehensive as other, but heres my 2p worth!

    Sweeping statements that VC is better than graded or visa versa are at odds with my experiences. Most would agree that they have different properties and some are not available in 'both forms'. I have used dozens of VC and a good few graded papers and can honestly say that my favourite VC papers (oriental, Forte, agfa etc) produce superb results; the only limitation being ME. They all produce deep luscious blacks with a touch of selenium and can produce luminous glowing prints. I too like certain graded papers, such as Fortezo, which limited comparison tells me has benefits over polywarmtone - it seems slightly richer and seems to allow pretty well any neg to print so easily on normal grade. I have used Oriental graded, Zone VI graded etc and cannot say that there is any real wholesale improvement in the final images that leave the darkroom. That said, I will continue to exploire their properties as they do tone differently in some cases and have different colour etc (Oriental graded being cooler than VC etc).

    The clincher for me is that some fo the finest printers in the world, whether they be those serving big names in London or NY or fine art photographers such as Roman Loranc, use VC papers and would not be without them. There is no denying the brilliance of their images. I was blown away with many prints in a Salgado exhibition (all on Kodak polymax Fine art I believe and from 35mm). The printer obviously knew his trade and materials well! Loranc is not exactly lacking in his printing either.

    Anyone here using Fotospeed Legacy? I used some of this thin VC paper a while back and it was superb.

    Tom

  4. #24
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Hi Tom

    Just a curious question,
    Are you speaking of the Salgado exhibition that was at George Eastman House a good few years back.
    If so, my impression of that show was that it was printed by two different printers.
    the large prints were excellent , beautiful contrast , edge to edge detail , but I must say the smaller prints were lower contrast and not as well printed,
    To me it seemed the show was started with the large prints, say 24x36inches, they then ran out of time and quickly made the smaller prints at a lower contrast which was safer to print and quicker to make.
    I would be thankful to know if the larger prints were on Kodak paper as they were magnificant examples of good analog printing . This is one paper I have not used as I am still pissed they stopped producing ectalure.


    thanks Bob

  5. #25

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    Bob, you have a good point and have jogged my memory. The exhibition I saw was at the Barbican in London about 2-3 years ago or so. 'Migrations' I think. Although I had to rush as I had little time, it was clear that some were superior to others and I do recall that the large prints were all stunning; tonnes of glow and beyond criticism. Some of the smaller images down the side aisles wer not as good and did appear more 'grey' and lacking the bite and glow of the others. There were so many prints (many hundreds)! Did you see 'Migrations' too? If so they were probably the same prints. I have heard and read that his printer used Kodak polymax Fine art and he shoots Kodak films and this would be in keeping with what I saw. I looked really close and the surface of the paper looked like Polymax, very smooth without the slight undulations from Oriental for example or the texture and slight mattness of Ilford MG. They also had the cool black of Polymax with a selnium afterbath for permanence. Could be wrong, but it looked right according to my use of the paper.

    I think the paper is great, but no better than Oriental VC - which is less expensive when Mr Cad in the UK does his buy on get one free. I find the two pretty well interchangeable, tho the Kodak has a less white base. It is definitely neatral to cool and very cool in cold tone devs. I have never used Ektalure so cannot compare them.

    Tom

  6. #26
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Hi Tom

    I saw the same show , it was Migrations, I used this show as a turning point for my own printing , as I thought that Mr Salgado would use the best European printer money could buy. When I walked into the room I felt comfortable with the show, but I did notice this difference which I have never heard from others.
    Salgado is a hero of mine and I understand he is doing landscapes with a larger camera now. I cannot wait to see his new work, I have all of his books and am really impressed with the man and his work.
    I will definately use this paper and give it a go , even though I wish those bastards at Kodak would get a grip and start producing the good products of the past.
    My last Kodak rep here in Toronto had a MBA in marketing on his card and knew absolutely f ... all about photography, George Eastman should be turning in his grave, if he knew the Morons making the decisions at Kodak now.
    Tom had a few beers while I printed all day so I'm going to stop my rant but I think anyone working seriously in this craft should be upset with the Major manufactures and their silly decisons.

  7. #27
    ann
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    i would love to try the Legacy paper but it was not available in the US and haven't seen any one here carry it.

  8. #28

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    Hello Bob Carnie,
    Thanks for your reply to my query about your printing methods. I will look up your earlier posts with interest.

    Alan Clark

  9. #29

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    "Fred Picker said that a good way to compare VC to graded is expose a sheet of #2 grade, then a sheet of VC but with no filtration, ie as a grade 2; then compare. He said the VC would look like mud."

    Fred also said a number of other foolish things.

  10. #30

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    Strickly speaking, a sharper focus is possible. How much so
    depends upon the paper and the lens.

    An important item in my mind is darkroom lighting. With it's
    narrow spectrum of sensitivity graded papers allow a very nice
    level of lighting. That alone may be reason enough to drop VC.

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