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Thread: +/- Development

  1. #11

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    "There is no way short of a miracle that you could get to N+1.5 for AZO#2." And now with new Grade 2, even moreso.

    Forget BPF 200 altogether and use Pyrocat HD with Classic 400 (less money) or TMY (more money) - get an extra stop and will do up to N+2 and up to N-6. With films like TMY and Classic 400 available it really makes no sense to use BPF 200, unless of course you have a lot of it in stock.
    Francesco

  2. #12
    noseoil's Avatar
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    Another consideration is where along the scale does the highlight need to be placed? N+1 is not necessarily needed if the top end is placed on or near zone VIII. You could just as easily increase contrast by using a yellow filter (knock down the shadows) and placing the highlights on zone VIII. The yellow filter will depress shadow values enough that a full range is accomplished without extended development times.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Francesco
    With films like TMY and Classic 400 available it really makes no sense to use BPF 200, unless of course you have a lot of it in stock.
    You are absolutely right, but sometimes price figures into the equation. I recently purchased several boxes of JandC 200 (similar or same as BPF 200) from JandC for less than $2 per sheet. Efke PL 100 is a much better film for expansion and contraction but costs more than twice as much. And hey, at $2 a sheet for 7X17" film I can find a use for the stuff!! In fact, with the stain of Pyrocat-HD, when used for kallitype and palladium printing, N+1.5 or SBR 5.5 is possible with reasonably short development times.

    Sandy

  4. #14

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    Yes Efke PL100 is more expensive, nearly double. And I notice they do not have Classic 400 in 7x17. If Classic 400 was available in 7x17 (as it is in 14x17) its marginally extra cost is not a deterrent to purchasing it as opposed to Classic 200.
    Francesco

  5. #15
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    I stronly recommend "Way Beyond Monochrome" by Ralph W. Lambrecht and Chris Woodhouse as well as "The Negative" by Ansel Adams for good comprehension of expansion & contraction development in order to match film & scene contrast.
    Both books really helped me understand the zone system.

    Jan
    Jan

  6. #16
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    I would like to add that you need to consider what the final print is going to look like before you make any determination on film development. Automatically altering development to fit the range of your film is formula photography, and has no part in expressive photography.

    Now, if you decide that the print would have a spread of 7 zones, then yes, you would expand development. But don't just N+1 something to 'fit' the film. Do it because the final product calls for it.

    Remember, you're in control of your materials, not the other way around.
    Cheers!

    -klm.

  7. #17

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    why do you always strive for AZO 2 when you can print a low contrast scene on AZO 3 and reduce with Amidol/water bath if needed? I read on the AZO forum that Michael recommended beginners start with grade 3 because of the flexibilty. I plan to order some in the next couple of months and would like to resolve this or at least go into the purchase confident of my order.

    Currently trying Bergger 200 and PMK in homemade BTZS tubes , will likely switch to HD when my PMK stock runs out.
    Eric
    www.esearing.com

  8. #18

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    Eric, AZO 2 has an incredibly long tonal scale (ES) and, much longer than Grade 3. Assuming you get the right negative to print well on new G2 and compare that print with another but similar (in terms of subject matter) negative printed on G3 with water bath (if needed), you would see an improvement in overall contrast (ironic considering it is G2 as opposed to G3) and more importantly a superior representation of local contrast. Also you are using BPF 200, an inherently low contrast film, and as mentioned above, short of a miracle this film will not cut it with new G2. Grade 3 is an awesome paper for Classic 200 or BPF 200 or Classic 400 but unless you have tried and succeeded in matching a negative to print well on new G2 one's experience with AZO is only half successful (for this I would recommend Efke PL100 in Pyrocat HD diluted 5:3:300, minimal agitation). In my opinion, start with G3 because it is easier to make negatives to print well on it, BUT do strive later on to get negatives to work and print well with new Grade 2. After which I am certain you will come to see Grade 3 as a backup or when low light conditions force you to use a faster film.
    Francesco

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    ... JandC 200 (similar or same as BPF 200)....Sandy
    Say it isn't so! After fighting with Bergger 200 for several months, trying to make it turn dark in places, I gave up and went to Efke. I had great success, so decided to spend $200 on J&C 200, and make it a one stop faster success. If it's the same film as Bergger (the edges are just as rough as Bergger) I'm back in the same hole. Preliminary tests indicate an ASA of 100 and 8 min. development in HC110 for gelatin-silver, so I did not get a speed advantage. If it really is the same stuff, the 7x17 is goin' on e-Bay!

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deckled Edge
    Say it isn't so! After fighting with Bergger 200 for several months, trying to make it turn dark in places, I gave up and went to Efke. I had great success, so decided to spend $200 on J&C 200, and make it a one stop faster success. If it's the same film as Bergger (the edges are just as rough as Bergger) I'm back in the same hole. Preliminary tests indicate an ASA of 100 and 8 min. development in HC110 for gelatin-silver, so I did not get a speed advantage. If it really is the same stuff, the 7x17 is goin' on e-Bay!
    Sorry Deckle, that is my story and I am sticking with it. I have seen some minor differences in various incarnations of these films in terms of EFS, but very little in terms of their potential for expansion and contraction, which is quite limited when compared to films such as FPF+, Tmax-100, etc.

    However, BPF 200 and JandC Classic 200 are not bad films. If you limit their use to the right lighting conditions and develop appropriately for your process they will give excellent results. If it is any consolation I bought a few boxes of the JandC 200 film recently myself, and have no regrets.

    Sandy
    Last edited by sanking; 12-20-2004 at 08:06 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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