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  1. #41
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Ilford Delta 3200: Expose at Box Speed or not?

    Interesting, thanks!

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancekingphoto View Post
    I'm planning a boudoir-style shoot for tomorrow morning, shot entirely indoors with window light on Ilford Delta 3200 film. I've used this film before on a couple of occasions (once in similar conditions), and was generally pleased with the results I got shooting box speed. However, a photographer acquaintance of mine who has been shooting film far longer than I recently suggested to me that, in his experience, Delta 3200 is best when exposed at 2400.

    Can anyone else confirm similar results? If it matters, I'll be using the 35mm version of the film. Depending on available light, I'd actually considered pushing the film up to 6400 as needed, but I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say.
    A point of clarification:

    The so called "3200" films are two films that I would avoid referring to with the phrase "box speed" - I think it just adds confusion.

    In most cases, people referring to "box speed" are referring to the ISO rating. If you refer to Delta 3200's "box speed", how does anyone know whether you mean it's ISO rating (1000) or the number in the name (3200)?
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

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  3. #43
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    Ilford Delta 3200: Expose at Box Speed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    A point of clarification:

    The so called "3200" films are two films that I would avoid referring to with the phrase "box speed" - I think it just adds confusion.

    In most cases, people referring to "box speed" are referring to the ISO rating. If you refer to Delta 3200's "box speed", how does anyone know whether you mean it's ISO rating (1000) or the number in the name (3200)?
    Wasn't the old Tri-400 really 80 speed that pushed well to 400? I remember reading a development paper somewhere that said that.

    My question, how many films are exactly the exposure level listed on the box?

    Also, why can't they just make a film speed that is actually 3200? Are there/were there any? Is P3200 really 3200? Which is better for resolution?


    ~Stone

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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    My question, how many films are exactly the exposure level listed on the box?
    All of them, yes every last one; that is with one caveat, that it is within the tolerance range of rounding to the closest "normal" ISO number. If a film measures 113 ISO it will be called 125 ISO, if 112 it will be called 100. So to within 1/6th of a stop, yes.

    Every deviation we make from the ISO rating and the ISO processing standard to any other speed or process standard is a person specific speed known as an Exposure Index, an EI.

    Everything from our metering methods to the accuracy of our thermometers to our choice of paper can affect our personal EI choices.

    I'm going to hazard a guess that outside of those who actually do ISO testing for film manufacturers, few if any of us mimic the ISO standards in practice. The film speeds that people brag about "finding" are in fact EI's.

    This doesn't mean these films don't or won't do a good job at an EI of 3200 or 400. Box ratings are just numbers.

    Even Ilford and Kodak show us various EI's that are workable. This data sheet for Delta 400 is a great example, http://ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2010628953322222.pdf see page 3, the numbers in bold.

    If Ilford had chosen Microphen as the ISO stand developer for Delta 400 the ISO rating may have been 500, if Perceptol maybe ISO 250.

    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Also, why can't they just make a film speed that is actually 3200? Are there/were there any? Is P3200 really 3200? Which is better for resolution?
    In order;
    They could, it would have a short shelf life.
    None that I know of.
    No. 800-1000, depends on developer, see Kodak tech pub.
    Don't know.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  5. #45
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    Ilford Delta 3200: Expose at Box Speed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    All of them, yes every last one; that is with one caveat, that it is within the tolerance range of rounding to the closest "normal" ISO number. If a film measures 113 ISO it will be called 125 ISO, if 112 it will be called 100. So to within 1/6th of a stop, yes.

    Every deviation we make from the ISO rating and the ISO processing standard to any other speed or process standard is a person specific speed known as an Exposure Index, an EI.

    Everything from our metering methods to the accuracy of our thermometers to our choice of paper can affect our personal EI choices.

    I'm going to hazard a guess that outside of those who actually do ISO testing for film manufacturers, few if any of us mimic the ISO standards in practice. The film speeds that people brag about "finding" are in fact EI's.

    This doesn't mean these films don't or won't do a good job at an EI of 3200 or 400. Box ratings are just numbers.

    Even Ilford and Kodak show us various EI's that are workable. This data sheet for Delta 400 is a great example, http://ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2010628953322222.pdf see page 3, the numbers in bold.

    If Ilford had chosen Microphen as the ISO stand developer for Delta 400 the ISO rating may have been 500, if Perceptol maybe ISO 250.



    In order;
    They could, it would have a short shelf life.
    None that I know of.
    No. 800-1000, depends on developer, see Kodak tech pub.
    Don't know.
    Thanks, informative and not garbled with middle words (unlike my posts) haha


    ~Stone

    The Important Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  6. #46
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Thanks, informative and not garbled with middle words (unlike my posts) haha


    ~Stone

    The Important Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    You are welcome.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Wasn't the old Tri-400 really 80 speed that pushed well to 400? I remember reading a development paper somewhere that said that.
    No.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Friday View Post
    The different speeds call for different development times, so this approach won't work.

    For general work, I shoot D3200 at 1000 to 1600 and develop for the time specified for 3200. It gives good results.
    This is what I do, also with good results using ID11 or D76.
    If I had been present at the creation, I would have given some useful hints for the better arrangement of the Universe.
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  9. #49

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    I shoot D3200 at 1000-1250 with Pyrocat HD. Anything faster gets me impenetrable shadows, but I can push for highlight density. I only get about 800-1000 with Rodinal using semi-stand, 640-800 with PMK.

    D76 is the devil, so can't tell you there, I just know that I hate blocked up highlights and don't get them with compensating development regimes.

  10. #50
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    I decided to go ahead and shoot the film at the "box speed" (by which I mean the speed the name suggests if not the actual rated speed), partly to play it safe but also due to the low existing light levels. Here's a sample of my results. It seemed much grainier than the 120 version of the same film, but I was still happy with what I got.

    Click image for larger version. 

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