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  1. #11

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    Nice effect, Adrian, with selenium toner. My favourite out of the three

    pentaxuser

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Twiss View Post
    Whilst MGIV does not exhibit much of a colour change in Selenenium I have found that Ilford Art 300 does change colour. I was slightly intruiged by this as I undrstood that Art 300 was Ilford MGIV emulsion coated on to Hannemule paper. Attached scans show what I mean. Attachment 59880Attachment 59881Attachment 59882
    I thought Ilford Art 300 was coated with MGWT emulsion.

    Roger

  3. #13
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    With Kodak selenium I use it 1:9 with Ilford MGIV RC for 3-4 minutes. This increases dmax and cools the greenish color to a nice neutral slightly cold look. very nice. I would assum the Adox selenium would behave much the same. Give it a shot! You won't be dissapointed.

  4. #14

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    I'm not disappointed.... so far.....

    Quote Originally Posted by brian steinberger View Post
    With Kodak selenium I use it 1:9 with Ilford MGIV RC for 3-4 minutes. This increases dmax and cools the greenish color to a nice neutral slightly cold look. very nice. I would assum the Adox selenium would behave much the same. Give it a shot! You won't be dissapointed.

  5. #15

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    Thank you very much for the advice everyone, it made me feel that much more confident before having a go. I just had to get myself & my trays/working space organized (trays in this order: fresh water soak -> Ilford Rapid fixer -> Adox Selenium -> water holding bath -> WASH). Armed with a gas mask & nitrile gloves, I mixed the Adox at 1+10. I only needed one print to establish that 4 minutes gave a pleasant result. The pukey 'oliveness' of Ilford MGIV RC was gone & the blacks turned out just as I'd hoped. That's exactly what I wanted!!! I washed each print for at the very least a solid 10 mins..... I simply cannot wash each print for more than that (like 1 hour!!), it's just not gonna happen, my landlord would have an absolute fit! After all, this is RC not FB, so if 10 mins is deemed really not enough then I'll have to look at some kind of chemical-wash aid.
    Afterwards I put the Selenium mixture in a concertina'd container for future use.... only thing is, I wouldn't have a clue how much concentrate to add to it for the next session.
    I'm a toning convert, so thanks again

  6. #16
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    Selenium is my absolute favourite toner - subtle, yet very effective with the right image.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamincurieux View Post
    Thank you very much for the advice everyone, it made me feel that much more confident before having a go. I just had to get myself & my trays/working space organized (trays in this order: fresh water soak -> Ilford Rapid fixer -> Adox Selenium -> water holding bath -> WASH). Armed with a gas mask & nitrile gloves, I mixed the Adox at 1+10. I only needed one print to establish that 4 minutes gave a pleasant result. The pukey 'oliveness' of Ilford MGIV RC was gone & the blacks turned out just as I'd hoped. That's exactly what I wanted!!! I washed each print for at the very least a solid 10 mins..... I simply cannot wash each print for more than that (like 1 hour!!), it's just not gonna happen, my landlord would have an absolute fit! After all, this is RC not FB, so if 10 mins is deemed really not enough then I'll have to look at some kind of chemical-wash aid.
    Afterwards I put the Selenium mixture in a concertina'd container for future use.... only thing is, I wouldn't have a clue how much concentrate to add to it for the next session.
    I'm a toning convert, so thanks again
    Great! Glad it worked out for you. As for washing, you do not need to wash RC paper for an hour even if you were able to. 5 minutes is fine for RC. You can re-use the selenium toner for quite a while, just keep it tightly bottled up. No need to replenish with new toner, just use it until it's exhausted (will tone poorly and develop silver flakes) and dump it properly and mix up a new batch.

  8. #18

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    About keeping the solution I'm just going by what Doremus said... question is, how much replenishment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    Also, I strongly recommend not discarding your toner, but rather replenishing it with small amounts of concentrate when the toning times get too long. The working solutions can be stored almost indefinitely; I have two gallon jugs that have been going for at least 8 years now (more likely 10+ years) and tone just fine. The toning solution needs to be filtered before use, as a black precipitate often occurs, but this is easy; a coffee filter in the funnel and you're set.
    Reusing the toner instead of discarding it prevents the toxic selenium from being introduced into the environment. Even municipal water-treatment plants do not deal well with heavy metals. Plus, it is more economical and, as a desired side-effect, the solutions quickly lose the annoying ammonia smell and are more pleasant to deal with. I've been on my soapbox about this for some time here now, so a quick search on my name will turn up more info.
    As mentioned, I have been doing this for years now. My fiber-base prints all test excellent for residual hypo and residual silver after two-bath fixing, toning in replenished toner, a 10-minute wash-aid treatment (HCA or equivalent) and a minimum one-hour wash.
    Hope this helps,
    Doremus

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian steinberger
    ... You can re-use the selenium toner for quite a while, just keep it tightly bottled up. No need to replenish with new toner, just use it until it's exhausted (will tone poorly and develop silver flakes) and dump it properly and mix up a new batch.
    Quote Originally Posted by gamincurieux View Post
    About keeping the solution I'm just going by what Doremus said... question is, how much replenishment?


    Let me clarify. First, Brian's method: While not completely bad practice, there is still quite a bit of selenium left in a toning solution even after the times become uncomfortably long. Determining when selenium toner is "exhausted" is not all that easy. Even harder is knowing how to "dump it properly." As I mentioned, selenium, which is a toxic heavy metal, is not removed by municipal water treatment plants. I'm not sure what the hazmat people do with it either. The time or two I took used toner to the hazmat facility near me, the people there were flummoxed and just marked it "photographic waste," the same thing they marked the fixer (which should have gone to silver recovery, but likely did not...).

    If you wish to discard selenium toner, try to use it till the times become uncomfortably long, then toss a few scrap prints into the tray and let them sit overnight. This will scavenge even more of the selenium from the solution, leaving very little to discard. Then discard into the municipal sewer system if your city/community allows it. If not, then bottle it up and take it to the hazmat facility.

    Or, you can save yourself the trouble and inject even less of the selenium into to environment by replenishing.

    Yes, used toner develops "silver flakes" (I think they are really a silver selenite compound). These, however, are easily filtered out.

    And, someone here once maintained that selenium toner was exhausted when the ammonia smell was gone. This is absolutely not the case. My replenished toner solutions never smell of ammonia and they tone just fine and rapidly.

    As for how much toner concentrate to add when replenishing... well, this is a bit trickier. I judge the amount of toning I like visually, i.e., when the right amount of color change has taken place. When it starts getting too long to reach the desired color change (I think 8 minutes is too long for me, but sometimes 6 minutes is too long too...), I add a bit of the concentrate. I rarely measure, just pour a bit from the bottle, but if I had to estimate, it would be 50 ml per liter as a starting point. Add this; if times are too slow, do it again. If times speed up uncomfortably, dilute with some water to slow things down.

    I realize this sounds imprecise, but it really isn't. Toning "1+19 for five minutes to enhance D-max" is a myth. The first print you put through a weak solution of toner uses up a bit of the selenium. After a few prints, it is no longer "1+19" and, to be consistent, the time should be adjusted to compensate. But, how much? Who knows. Many don't bother and end up running prints through too weak toner for too little time and getting no benefit (or result) whatsoever.

    If you can't see a change, either in D-max or in image tone or both, you aren't getting any toning. Tone to a point you can see, pull the print when the desired change is reached and adjust the dilution of the toner to keep the time of doing this in a comfortable range. That is much more accurate.

    Hope this helps,

    Doremus

    www.DoremusScudder.com

  10. #20

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    So, in that first session I mixed up 2.2 liters at 1+10 and actually only toned approx ten 30x40cm prints @ 4 mins each - that's not much toning really, is it? The solution was then poured into a concertina'd container for storage... given that I only did about ten prints, the solution in the bottle is probably still good to go for a few more prints yet at 4 mins, would you think? Will it be good to go right out of the bottle like that after a month or two, or three? Maybe I should just put in 100mls of concentrate to get it up to speed.... ? I mean, I don't want to put too much in..... when is too much?!

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