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  1. #21
    Slixtiesix's Avatar
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    Concerning technical film, this stuff is also said to be amazing, but I have no personal experience with it:

    http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX%20Fi...CMS_Films.html

  2. #22

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    You are asking for fine grain in a 20X enlargement (I assume from the square format that you are coming from 2-1/4 square negatives). Although such enlargements are usually viewed at a distance that makes the grain of something like Tri-X unnoticeable, your post suggests that such grain is undesirable to you. That leaves only the very fine grain films. Pan-F is probably the most available, and it works well in a variety of developers. Xtol would be the first that comes to mind. There are other very fine grain films available that may deserve attention, such as Adox CMS II, but they may be hard to find. They may also require special developers.

    From your post, I assume you are using ink jet printing (which is a quite different thing than carbon printing). The digital process can do a great deal to hide the graininess in a print, so it might be worthwhile to try a large print with your existing film and see how it looks. The Delta films have quite fine grain if developed properly in the recommended developer.

  3. #23

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    Sounds like the easiest and most practical thing to do is to pick up Tmax-100, Delta-100, and Pan-F+, process it in XTOL or something and see if one of them meets your needs. Personally, I have not noticed much difference (or if any at all) using different developers for a given film but my experience is small.

    Anything beyond these, you may run into supply problems in short order.

    Otherwise, you may just have to go "bigger".... LF in your future?
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  4. #24

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    If scanning is the main objective then you may also want to consider C41 films. Ilford XP2 scanned very good in my 35mm film scanner and at EI100 it is very fine grained. Scanning regular BW films in my Nikon Coolscan IV-ED gave more grain. Plus you can't use ICE on regular BW films. Don't know if this all applies to drum scanners as well.

    Nice shot of Old Montreal.

  5. #25

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    Can't contribute much to your question, as I'm still working out my stock of Agfapan +Rodinal. But that's a gorgeous image!!!

  6. #26
    ROL
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    I've offered you some experience and examples on your previous thread, which you seem to have abandoned. But to be fair, they were only analog based and not hybrid.

  7. #27
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    Wow, thanks everyone for all the feeback - what a great forum ! The two images in my post are recent trials with Efke 25 and Rodinol (1:50). I quickly scanned them on an old Epson flatbed but haven't looked at them with a loop yet, but I really like the tonality - on another thread I was told either Rodinol or a Pyro with Efke 25. Will Pyro make that much of a difference ?

    I'm surprised no one mentioned any other iso 25 films, how does their grain compare to 100 speed t-grain films like Delta/TMAX ?

    Quote Originally Posted by brian steinberger View Post
    It's not going to get much finer grained than TMAX 100/Delta 100 in Xtol. That's your best bet. To be honest, Delta 100/D-76 isn't too far behind. I'd stick with it... Great work by the way!!

    I had always assumed tmax and delta were the same, I'll add it to my list of combinations And thanks !

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Hi fatso:

    By the way are you from Montreal?

    Michael
    I never had any luck with XTOL with Delta 100- my negatives were always severely overdeveloped, and I'm very careful with process temps, shutter speed calibration, dilution ratios... maybe I just had a bad batch of xtol - will give it another try.

    And yes - from Montreal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burk View Post
    I can't imagine finer medium format combination than a tabular grain 100 speed film.

    We haven't been offered a tabular grain 50 speed or 25 speed film so I don't know how you can do much better.

    I'd experiment at least a bit with same film but 4x5 or 8x10 see if that is more satisfying.

    Otherwise take some of the fine suggestions here.

    Your example shows adequate shadow detail without evidence that you rated the film at half speed. But I want to point out that for the finest results, I believe you need to absolutely give the minimum exposure that provides shadow detail (instead of the safer "half box speed" technique that guarantees results but with potential for overexposure... which would mean more grain).
    Hi Bill, your suggestion sounds interesting, how do I determine proper exposure ? Should I measure and expose for a different zone than 18% gray ?

    As for 4x5, unless type 55 film becomes available again, I just don't have the patience !

    Quote Originally Posted by ParkerSmithPhoto View Post
    And the answer is... Diafine. Or a similar two-bath developer. I could list the reasons why this is the "magic bullet" but no less an authority than Sandy King has already done so in View Camera magazine, the article which you can find here.

    I used Diafine with TMAX 400, flatbed scans and pigment prints. After being back in the darkroom for over a year, I recently pulled these prints out of the file and realized... gulp... they may be the nicest prints I've ever made.
    Great article ! My hands are going to be full the next few weeks !!

    Quote Originally Posted by bascom49 View Post
    That is one nice image.
    Thanks !

    Here's another one from the series

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slixtiesix View Post
    Concerning technical film, this stuff is also said to be amazing, but I have no personal experience with it:

    http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX%20Fi...CMS_Films.html
    Dying to try it. I used Techpan for large prints developed in Technidol - one of my favorites... it will be missed


    Paul

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROL View Post
    I've offered you some experience and examples on your previous thread, which you seem to have abandoned. But to be fair, they were only analog based and not hybrid.
    I developed my roll of Efke 25 with Rodinol 1:50 as suggested by Роберт and made some pretty good negatives and thanked him - I didn't have that much else to add

    But I'm very curious about trying Pyro again. I used it a few years ago with Delta 100 but didn't notice much difference in my prints, but then again I didn't do any real world comparisons. Now that I want to make some really large prints every detail counts and with the demise of Techpan I need to try something new.... adding Efke 25/Pyro to the list...


    Paul

  9. #29
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    FP4 and D76 at 1:1.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatso View Post
    I developed my roll of Efke 25 with Rodinol 1:50 as suggested by Роберт and made some pretty good negatives and thanked him - I didn't have that much else to add

    But I'm very curious about trying Pyro again. I used it a few years ago with Delta 100 but didn't notice much difference in my prints, but then again I didn't do any real world comparisons. Now that I want to make some really large prints every detail counts and with the demise of Techpan I need to try something new.... adding Efke 25/Pyro to the list...


    Paul
    Pyro will be sharp, but grainier than moderately diluted solvent developers such as XTOL, D76 etc. That's the tradeoff. It won't do anything special from a tonality perspective. Stain density can also vary from film to film so you'd have to experiment. It depends on what kind of printing you are doing.

    Regarding slow films in the 25ISO range, they are typically higher in contrast and/or have a shorter scale. That's the great thing about a film like TMax 100 if you like fine grain. It will be as, or near as fine grained as a conventional 25ISO film, but with a very long scale.

    Regarding XTOL, it is only a high contrast developer if you develop that way. It is a general purpose solvent developer. You can get any level of contrast you want out of it. It gives good film speed and very fine grain at a variety of dilutions. Very flexible.

    You're kind of all over the map here. In your original post you wanted fine grain and a long tonal scale. But you're talking about all sorts of different films, Rodinal, Pyro etc. First ask yourself what image characteristics you are really looking for, and how you will be printing. Based on that, choose a film. Then, to build on the characteristics of the film, choose the developer. Then, it requires practice to get the most out of the film/developer combination.

    If the combo you just tried looked good stick with it.

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