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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble View Post
    So the advice everyone gives to edit your collection is wrong?


    flawed has nothing to do with editing one's collection, it has to do with imperfection.
    and realizing there is no such thing as perfection or a silver bullet ... its more to do with
    what the japanese call wabi sabi

    if you don't like it ... oh well, your loss, just as it is my loss that
    i can't stand clinical razor sharp "perfect" images.
    Last edited by jnanian; 11-26-2012 at 08:38 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #62
    Stephanie Brim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble View Post
    Okay that's one vote for not caring about the environment. Anyone else?




    For the record most great capitalists aren't innovative inventors. They just know how to take the work of the true innovators and inventors and manipulate the patent, copyright, and legal system to their advantage. Never make the mistake of thinking just because someone has seven+ figures in their bank account they have provided mankind with some astonishing useful innovative idea/product. Please understand I was by no means saying the people flogging $200 plastic cameras invented spontaneous creative film photography. No, what they invented was the idea you needed to spend $300+ to do what $20, a DSLR lens you already own, and a little imagination could accomplish with a used Canon/Nikon body off of ebay. And when you point this fact out to people you get called a "snob." Figure that one out.
    No, you misunderstood. What I'm trying to tell you is that the company "Lomography" capitalized on the concept of lomography. Some of the people said, "Hey, we might be able to make some money off this!" and tried.

    EDIT: TO make this perfectly clear, lomography as an art form was around before Lomography the company was.

    I'm not really going to say poo to *anyone* who makes new film cameras. I mean, you could actually say the same about the new Fuji folder and the new Voigtlander rangefinders: they cause people to buy new cameras instead of the older ones that are just as good.

    The thing is: they're not keeping anyone from buying used cameras. It all started out with people buying cheap cameras on Ebay and learning that, hey, this is pretty cool. In fact, used cameras are becoming more and more popular, and not to mention prices are going up on some of the best ones, including the Nikon and Canon bodies.

    As to the whole 'environment' thing, developing film isn't really all that great for it, either, especially in large amounts. So...that entire point is moot.
    No idea what's going to happen next, but I'm hoping it involves being wrist deep in chemicals come the weekend.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    flawed has nothing to do with editing one's collection, it has to do with imperfection.
    and realizing there is no such thing as perfection or a silver bullet.
    there are too many people seeking silver bullets, just read apug and other places
    where people ask for perfect film and developer combinations, perfect lenses
    perfect ways to mimic ansel adams or karsh's work &C .
    I would not characterize suggesting someone save some money by buying a Canon Elan 7ne and a brand new Canon nifty fifty as "seeking silver bullets." In any other field of endeavor outside of "art" that would be considered a prudent economical move.

    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    personally, i don't "get" f64 aesthetic or grand landscape west coast ideals.
    clinical, razor sharp "perfect" images to me are a bore, a weird abstract perversion of reality
    the HDR of analog ...

    i would rather see something that may have "flaws"
    (shallow DOF, poor color rendition, flare, scratches, &c ) any day of the week ...

    Mmmm... yeah but you know about "f64 aesthetic or grand landscape west cost ideals." That's my point. You made an informed decision. My first job out of college was primarily concerned with moving product in order to improve the corporate balance sheet. I left that field entirely and went to graduate school. I am now primarily concerned with doing the best thing for the counter party... even if they aren't too thrilled about it. But I can be honest with people and let them make informed decisions. If they get ALL the objective information and still decide on a course of action I personally wouldn't choose myself that's fine. But in my experience when you show someone a $200 Lomo camera and then show them a sub $100 Canon Elan 7ne and a $100 nifty fity 10 times out of 10 they go for the Canon package. It's not even a contest. If some artist says I'm putting my Hasselblad on the shelf for awhile and doing some experimental stuff with a Lomo camera I say, cool, knock yourself out, make sure to show me the results when you are done.

    I'm sure if you were to put together a portfolio of your favorite shots I would find it enjoyable. But you have to realize just because it is spontaneous and creative there is a lot of knowledge and thought behind it. I know if you take a picture with a Lomography camera and there is some cool effect you will probably be able to decipher why it happened and reproduce it at some later point when you think it is appropriate. You will probably be able to also suppress it when you don't think it adds to the picture. And I'm sure there are tons of Lomography.com effects you can replicate for a lot less than $300.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie Brim View Post
    As to the whole 'environment' thing, developing film isn't really all that great for it, either, especially in large amounts. So...that entire point is moot.
    Stephanie my main developer is Rodinal and I do a lot of stand developing. The MOST developer I use for developing a roll of film is 4mL. I use a tap water stop bath. I reuse my fixer. I am currently researching local places I can dump of my fixer for silver recovery. I wash my film based on progressively lengthening soaking times not continuous flow. I do my final rinse in distilled water and I only use a few drops of photo flo. I have no recollection of the last time I even bought photo flo. It's probably been a couple of years since I bought new Rodinal. I don't mix up gallons of developer, stop bath, and fixer. There are very common sense ways you can minimize your impact on the environment and still enjoy this hobby. And frankly my routine is very economical. It's not just some tree hugger fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie Brim View Post
    I'm not really going to say poo to *anyone* who makes new film cameras. I mean, you could actually say the same about the new Fuji folder and the new Voigtlander rangefinders: they cause people to buy new cameras instead of the older ones that are just as good.
    I am not familiar with the new Fuji folder and the Voigtlander rangefinders. I haven't seen them at Urban Outfitters nor have I seen them written up as having any kind of major impact on the film market. I am not sure about the quality of the Fuji folder and the Voigtlander. There is something to be said for purchasing new. A brand new shutter, warranty and available parts are nice. My problem with lomography.com is the products are far inferior to what is available in the used market and the prices are far in excess. I mean if you already own a digital setup you can buy canon bodies on eprey and if they eventually break just buy a new one. I just struggle to make sense of this situation. It is marketing genius, but surely you can't say it is much more than that. Are there some seasoned photographers that make a conscious informed decision to experiment? Sure. But that isn't the bulk of their clientele. You can't honestly tell me that the average person when in possession of all the unvarnished facts would choose to buy a Lomography.com camera. That and the wastefulness are the main drivers of my concern. Why not have an honest conversation? When you criticize this marketing campaign why do people say you only like Leica and you are a "snob?" It's very strange. I can complain about the weather and no one says a peep. I say a disparaging word about the marketers at lomography.com and I get called very name in the book. Why?

  5. #65
    Stephanie Brim's Avatar
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    I don't know. You seem to assume that these people are stupid. On the contrary, I assure you that they aren't. A lot of them develop their own film because labs are few and far between who cross process. Also, when buying from the site they're assured a camera that works as opposed to the utter crapshoot that most of the older Russian cameras are on Ebay.

    The reason that you're getting flack is that you seem to be mixing up the corporate entity that supplies film and such with the actual photography movement which is just a bunch of people having fun taking photographs. The majority of the people doing lomography aren't buying the cameras new from Lomography. You can get most of the lower end cameras on Ebay from the countries in which they're manufactured readily and all you have to do is search for the camera you want to see that. However, there are some that are exclusive (the Debonair for one, and the improved-upon Holga and LC-A). However, I'm not going to tell someone how to spend their money.
    No idea what's going to happen next, but I'm hoping it involves being wrist deep in chemicals come the weekend.

  6. #66

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    Lomography is it's own style ... But I agree people are doing creative work and more importantly having fun With it.

  7. #67
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    LOMO is the producer of biggest single piece telescope mirror in the world and producer of best movie camera lenses in the world. If you want to buy an LOMO Square Front Anamorphic 22mm lens , it starts from 25000 dollars and climbs.
    LOMO is the maker of most advanced satellite lenses in the world also.

    My friend is an light engineer in germany and conducting 100000 people concerts is not rare for him. I am looking his facebook page , all the artist people from germany is spooky and feel me in danger. They are wild , untamed , anarchists.
    They have their fathers money and unlimited hunger for power. I dont like young people of today. They are in class struggle war games too much. Money is the only valuable thing , they laugh to our seriousness and struggle. 100 dollar is their 8x10 camera.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble View Post
    Stephanie my main developer is Rodinal and I do a lot of stand developing. The MOST developer I use for developing a roll of film is 4mL. I use a tap water stop bath. I reuse my fixer. I am currently researching local places I can dump of my fixer for silver recovery. I wash my film based on progressively lengthening soaking times not continuous flow. I do my final rinse in distilled water and I only use a few drops of photo flo. I have no recollection of the last time I even bought photo flo. It's probably been a couple of years since I bought new Rodinal. I don't mix up gallons of developer, stop bath, and fixer. There are very common sense ways you can minimize your impact on the environment and still enjoy this hobby. And frankly my routine is very economical. It's not just some tree hugger fantasy.



    I am not familiar with the new Fuji folder and the Voigtlander rangefinders. I haven't seen them at Urban Outfitters nor have I seen them written up as having any kind of major impact on the film market. I am not sure about the quality of the Fuji folder and the Voigtlander. There is something to be said for purchasing new. A brand new shutter, warranty and available parts are nice. My problem with lomography.com is the products are far inferior to what is available in the used market and the prices are far in excess. I mean if you already own a digital setup you can buy canon bodies on eprey and if they eventually break just buy a new one. I just struggle to make sense of this situation. It is marketing genius, but surely you can't say it is much more than that. Are there some seasoned photographers that make a conscious informed decision to experiment? Sure. But that isn't the bulk of their clientele. You can't honestly tell me that the average person when in possession of all the unvarnished facts would choose to buy a Lomography.com camera. That and the wastefulness are the main drivers of my concern. Why not have an honest conversation? When you criticize this marketing campaign why do people say you only like Leica and you are a "snob?" It's very strange. I can complain about the weather and no one says a peep. I say a disparaging word about the marketers at lomography.com and I get called very name in the book. Why?
    I can't for the life of me figure out why in the hell anyone would shoot tiny crappy little inch square negatives and soup it in the grainiest developer on the planet. For not much more you could be pounding out razor sharp 8x10 contact prints with no apparent grain, and unreal tonality, like I do. I guess you are a victim of marketing.

  9. #69

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    I don't use Diana or other cameras of a similar quality but I don't understand why this rage against Lomography. Did they kill someone? Is it mandatory to use Lomography now so some people get easily upset? Is there somewhere a bible every photographer should follow and telling him (or her) what to do and what not to do? Is the world not big enough to acccept multiple ways to practice a hobby?
    "The problem with photography is that it only deals with appearances." Duane Michals

    "A photograph is a secret of a secret. The more it tells you the less you know." Diane Arbus

  10. #70
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    I agree with Stephanie. I think a lot of people who shoot with these cheap cameras/lenses (including myself) are not 'lomographers' in the sense of the big "L" lomography movement, they are just people who like to have fun or explore what can be done with cameras outside the norm. I like my Holgas but I can guarantee that I would never pay the prices that places like Lomography and other retailers demand.

    That being said...I think the appeal of Lomography is that is provides people, who may not know a lot about film, or be intimidated by film cameras that are outside of their realm of familiarity (I certainly was before I got my first medium format camera). Sure, the cameras and the films are expensive (we know that), but they provide an easy, friendly access to those who are looking for something different but are not sure where to start. I'm certain that if those people keep up with it and do their research, they'll learn quickly enough that they can use cheaper, non-Lomo films to do what they want, and that there are other cameras and processes that they might try.

    The thing that bothers me about lomography (big or small L) is that it promotes the idea that film is unpredictable, goofy, out-of-focus, that cameras leak light, etc... and that that's all film can be about. Most recent articles about film always seem to have a tie to the lomography movement, which I find unfortunate. There's so much more to film than cheap cameras (not that there's anything wrong with them, I like them), film can (and does) produce stunning work, it can be very reliable and predictable and beautiful, but no one is promoting that fact. We at APUG of course know that, but we are insiders to this little club, and getting that message out there without being critical or condescending is important.
    Rachelle

    My favorite thing is to go where I've never been. D. Arbus



 

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