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  1. #11

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    for years labs didn't process every film
    by itself make sure the time &c were exact to the chart.
    they would process a handful of different films / speeds together &c even though
    at home you wouldn't. if you look at charts they sometimes
    say pushed 1stop of pulled one stop same processing as normal ...
    time temperature dilution &c are always important ...
    they give a starting point for you to figure out what you will actually do
    after you process a roll ... and you are on your second, third. fourteenth ...
    i process all my film together, asa 25 - 3200 in the same developer for the same
    time without agitation .. i don't sweat the small stuff .. but all that said
    i know my working methods and i know what to expect ...
    if my apug gallery looks empty you might check these places

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  2. #12
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    The goal is the print, and the print is the summary of all the previous steps in your process.

    While you have 'leeway' of +/- 25% in contrast with multigrade paper, you are best off if you leave that 'leeway' to creative choice rather than saving your ass, so your goal is always to make negatives that print well on something in the middle from Grade 2 to 3, let's say.
    That leaves room on BOTH sides of 'normal' to increase or decrease contrast fairly dramatically.

    Think of the film processing as a bolt, and the paper being a nut. To make them fit together they have to be the same thread. Same with negs and paper - the better you fit the negative tone curve to the paper tone curve, the easier it will be for you in the darkroom come printing time. Your rate of wasting paper will be significantly reduced, which is a real benefit in this day and age, where paper is really expensive. I print with Ilford papers, usually 11x14, and that paper is almost three US dollars per sheet now. Film is comparatively inexpensive compared to that.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  3. #13
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    If your film was exposed EXACTLY the same and you develop it EXACTLY the same way, you get EXACTLY the same result.
    theoretically. this is exactly right!
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  4. #14

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    When I am teaching film development, I like to compare time and temp charts to stripes on the road. They are guidelines.

    You will NEVER develop 2 sheets or 2 rolls of film identically, The objective is to have an idea of where your errors may be and to have a handle on what you are going to do in development BEFORE any chemistry gets poured. How long is it going to be in each chemical, how long and when you will agitate, how long it takes to pour in and out, where the timer is, where the cap for the developer bottle is...etc, etc. Get your act together before and don't do anything "on the fly"
    * Just because your eyes are closed, doesn't mean the lights in the darkroom are off. *
    * When the film you put in the camera is worth more than the camera you put the film in... *
    * When I started using 8x10, it amazed me how many shots were close to the car. *

  5. #15
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lyga View Post
    This can mean more accurate development because it's easier to time 10 minutes than to time 3 minutes (because of the inflow and outflow of developer which does, and does NOT, 'count' as actual development time). With a 10 minute development time, the time needed to fill and empty the tank does not matter as much as with the 3 minute development time. - David Lyga
    Bold font above added by me.

    The best method for developing film is to lower the reels into an already full tank. So, a normal developing cycle would entail using three tanks, each filled with developer, stop bath, and fix (along with a possible fourth tank if you care to do a pre-wet). Obviously you need complete darkness for when the tanks are open.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  6. #16
    David Lyga's Avatar
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    I fully agree with you, Thomas. The film is in quickly and out just as quickly. That mimicks the advantages of sheet film development. - David Lyga

  7. #17

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    Development time is not as important as many would believe. The main concern should be consistency. The accuracy of short developing times - like 3 or 4 minutes - is much more critical that longer times - like 16 or 20 minutes. The needed accuracy is more or less proportional to the total time. If you go a bit longer, you get a bit more contrast; shorter, you get a bit less. Differences in agitation can easily give development changes equal to as much as 15 percent changes in time. Therefore it is important to develop a consistent technique and then find the development times that work well for you.

  8. #18

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    I've done this experiment once. I think I used Tmax400 and XTOL for this test.

    Take an image with full range of tones. Have a gray card in there also.
    Shoot it 1 stop over, 1 stop under. 2 stops over, 2 stops under. Then repeat the process 2 more times.
    Develop each with what the chart says. +20% dev time and -20% dev time. Then +20 MORE % and -20 MORE %.
    Print each image so that the gray card looks identical.

    Except for the fringe cases where -2 stop exposure and least developed AND + 2 stops and most developed, all results looked basically the same. I really had hard time telling them apart.

    Try it.... it's amazing how flexible and forgiving this whole thing is....
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  9. #19
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    How important is it to be accurate with development times?

    Sure it's flexible. The kicker is that if you make negs that print well at a medium grade, you have a lot more artistic freedom to BOTH lower and raise contrast, with the same neg. If your negs are higher contrast, or lower contrast, to begin with, you pretty much lose flexibility in one direction.

    And, lets not forget that if you know what to expect in the darkroom, a lot of guesswork is taken out, which means less paper wasted, along with a lot more hair left on our scalps.
    While its nice to have a safety buffer, it would be wasteful not to try to make negatives that are consistent, both density and contrast wise.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #20
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Sure it's flexible. The kicker is that if you make negs that print well at a medium grade, you have a lot more artistic freedom to BOTH lower and raise contrast, with the same neg. If your negs are higher contrast, or lower contrast, to begin with, you pretty much lose flexibility in one direction.

    And, lets not forget that if you know what to expect in the darkroom, a lot of guesswork is taken out, which means less paper wasted, along with a lot more hair left on our scalps.
    While its nice to have a safety buffer, it would be wasteful not to try to make negatives that are consistent, both density and contrast wise.
    Yep.

    Over the past 4-years or so of learning and refining my processes I have found that the better I get at producing "normal" negatives, the easier my life is and the quality of my first proofs has literally increased by several orders of magnitude because of that.

    Nice, "normal", consistent negatives are the bomb and the bees knees.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

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