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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan
    Preserving the order of Mikhail Garous' method (develop, tone, bleach) using B&W reversal bleach based on dichromate or permanganate does not work, as these bleaches also destroy the 'toned' positive. I found this out the hard way as well.
    I should clarify my statement by mentioning that the E6 bleach-fix is based on an iron-ammonium EDTA complex, which is not as 'vigorous' a bleach as the B&W reversal chemistry. The silver sulfide 'positive' survives the E6 bleach-fix in Garous' method but does not survive a conventional B&W reversal bleach.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate Mocak
    My goal is to find use for the stack of colour slides which I'd bought before I started doing black & white photography . . .
    Considering the apparently marginal results others have seen, would it make sense to simply try to sell the color transparency film through a European eBay site to try to recover some of the original investment? Or, would it be possible to work a trade of some sort with your local photo dealer?
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Zentena
    So why not crossprocess the C-41 B&W film into E-6? You'll end up with B&W slides I think.
    That will work, but the contrast is on the low side, so I overexpose 1 stop and have the lab pulling in the development.

    Morten

  4. #14
    rjr
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    Nick,

    "Colour slide fillm are only colour slides if you develop it in E-6. If you crossprocess it in C-41 you get negatives. So why not crossprocess the C-41 B&W film into E-6? You'll end up with B&W slides I think."

    Yo will. But most C41-BWs are masked, the only one without the contrast masked I know of is Ilford´s Xp2s. This film tends to greening in E6 chemistry, you won´t get consistent and -worse- nice results.
    Tschüss,
    Roman

  5. #15
    rjr
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    Jordan,

    yes, fogged highlights are probably due to toned silver there - I believe it is the indirect kind of toning with thiorea. One could control it by adding a silver soluting substance to the first developer and thus clearing up the highlights a bit...

    It is certainly not the base that is fogged...

    If you care I could dig out my protocols and post the Thiorea/NaOH concentrations I have used - I got a few promising results with this effort.

    OTOT - it is troubling and rarely worth the effort. You can have good results with a plain off-the-shelf kit like the Foma Dia-Kit.

    Roman
    Tschüss,
    Roman

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjr
    You will. But most C41-BWs are masked, the only one without the contrast masked I know of is Ilford´s Xp2s. This film tends to greening in E6 chemistry, you won´t get consistent and -worse- nice results.
    I use Kodak T400CN (the old C41-film from Kodak. Similar to XP-2 in the masking matter). The new one (made to be printed on colour paper has this masking to prevent colour tones on the finished B&W print).
    XP2 and T400CN are both C41-films made for printing the traditional way.

    Morten

  7. #17

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    Shoot and process the color slides as normal. Then get a slide duplicator attachment for your camera and shoot b&w negs of the slides you like. A little more costly but less waste, and you will then have color and BW images to work with. Unless you just like to experiment. The range of tones on the slide film will be contrastier than your BW film so you should not have any issues. Underexpose the slides slightly and bracket exposure in the BW film for best results. Expose for highlights in the slides.

    OR, You can scan the color images and create B&W negatives/prints digitally. (ducks for cover).
    Eric
    www.esearing.com

  8. #18

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    Roman, I think you mean direct toning (without prior bleaching -- thiourea reacting directly with silver) rather than indirect (requires a pre-bleach stage, like sepia toning, so the toner reacts with AgX). Anyway, adding more silver solvent did not work -- I tried that as well and was using a very large amount of KSCN in a modified first dev (based on Kodak D-19) before I quit trying this method.

    Ultimately I have had better results doing a conventional B&W reversal process with Ilford Pan F Plus. If I find the Foma reversal kit and film available here in Toronto I will take them for a "spin" too.

  9. #19
    rjr
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    Jordan,

    aehm... yes. ;-)
    Tschüss,
    Roman

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjr
    Kate,

    you could follow the instructions given by Jordan and Allessandro - omit the second development and use a bleach instead (Thiorea).
    Roman,
    I'm not sure I understand what exactly you mean by the above; the instructions say:
    1. First Developer
    2. Washing
    3. Toner
    4. Washing
    5. Bleach-fix
    6. Final washing
    7. Stabiliser
    8. Drying

    Did you mean that I should skip the steps 3. and 4. and use thiourea in the step 5.? Didn't you mean 'toner' and mistype 'bleach'? (My understanding was that Toner in the step 3 replaces the second developer and the step 5 is done with hypo.)

    Quote Originally Posted by rjr
    If you are interested I could dig out my protocols from this summer.
    Yes, I am very interested. Thanks!
    Kate

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