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  1. #1

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    Colour slides as black & white?

    Is it possible to develop colour slides as black and white slides (or negatives)? If yes, what is the development process and formulas?

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate Mocak
    Is it possible to develop colour slides as black and white slides (or negatives)? If yes, what is the development process and formulas?

    Thanks!

    I read somewhere on the net that you have to change one step of the normal e-6 line and use a toner. Don't remember when!!! :-(
    Last edited by Alessandro Serrao; 12-28-2004 at 02:56 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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    Colour slide fillm are only colour slides if you develop it in E-6. If you crossprocess it in C-41 you get negatives. So why not crossprocess the C-41 B&W film into E-6? You'll end up with B&W slides I think.


    Or why not consider any of the B&W slide processes which use B&W film?

    Supposedly you can process colour film in B&W developer to get yourself bad B&W negatives but I don't think that's your goal.

  4. #4
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    Your objective is unclear, Kate, at least to me. Perhaps if you could explain what you are trying to do, and why, the responses could be more directly useful.
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

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    My goal is to find use for the stack of colour slides which I'd bought before I started doing black & white photography. It would be great if it was possible to develop them as B&W slides. I can experiment, of course, and sacrifice a few rolls, but I'd rather start with a better understanding of what's going to happen and have some predictable results .

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessandro Serrao
    I read somewhere on the net that you have to change one step of the normal e-6 line and use a selenium toner. Don't remember when!!! :-(
    Here it goes: the page is located @ http://www.profotos.com/education/pr...ns/index.shtml
    Hope to have been helpful Kate

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate Mocak
    Is it possible to develop colour slides as black and white slides (or negatives)? If yes, what is the development process and formulas?

    Thanks!
    Kate -- I have tried it according to the method described in the link Alessandro provides. It works, but not that well. I used a Tetenal 3-bath kit and replaced the colour dev with sepia toner. The resulting slides are way too dense and even several stops' overexposure doesn't improve things much. There is simply too much highlight density in the resulting slides and I think it has to do with the toner interacting with developed silver.

    Note that you need to use a slide-developing kit to try this anyway, or home-brew a very active and solventy first-developer and a mild-ish bleach-fix formula. Regular B&W reversal processes use bleaches that absolutely destroy slide film (I have tried this too).

    Have a look on my page (www.photosensitive.ca) in the About section for a link to an article on this.

    Jordan

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    Thank you both, Alessandro and Jordan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan
    Note that you need to use a slide-developing kit to try this anyway, or home-brew a very active and solventy first-developer and a mild-ish bleach-fix formula. Regular B&W reversal processes use bleaches that absolutely destroy slide film (I have tried this too).
    Jordan
    I won't be able to get an off-the-shelf colour slide developing kit easily (they only sell Foma's B&W reversal kit here) but I can mix one (providing I'll get all the chemicals). Your answer put me on the ground, though, and I'd like to thank you for 'warning' me.

    Maybe I should reconsider it and resort to cross-processing instead.

  9. #9
    rjr
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    Kate,

    you could follow the instructions given by Jordan and Allessandro - omit the second development and use a bleach instead (Thiorea). Density is controlled by the first development (duration) and exposure, tone is influenced through temperature of the toning and the relation of both Thiorea and Sodiumhydroxide - it varies from deep chocolate brown to light yellow.

    And you may develop it in a simple bw reversal process - recipes are on the net as are some kits readily available from Foma, Kodak and few others.

    Testing is involved with both, the first will bring you some nice results with a strange toning to it, the second will give you quite neutral (slightly warm tone) bw. slides - the price you pay is quite coarse grain. The silver used in E6 film is of large grain, it´s size and shape doesn´t matter in the normal process as it is bleached and fixed and thus removed in total.

    If you are interested I could dig out my protocols from this summer.

    Jordan, could you go in detail what happened to your films, how they got destroyed? These films are made for rough circumstances - high speed transport, high temperatures, quick and strong changes of pH, long processing time. So they are pre-hardened by the manufacturer and _very_ tough.

    The Foma kit will give you decent results!
    Tschüss,
    Roman

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    Roman, here is what I remember of my most recent experiences trying to develop colour slide film to give a B&W positive.

    Like Kate, I had come into a bunch of colour slide film for cheap and didn't particularly want or need a colour image. In experimenting in trying to get B&W positives from this stuff I first used the method of Mikhail Garous provided in the link Alessandro gave. I tried it with this Fuji MS100/1000 according to his directions and got very dark positives (deep-brown-and-white rather than black-and-white -- I used a reasonably alkaline thiourea toner bath). Unfortunately, the highlights were still quite 'dense' despite prolonged bleaching and no matter what I did, including overexposing by several stops, I could never get rid of the highlight 'veil'. My conclusion was that the thiourea toner had reacted somewhat with developed silver grains as well as with the left-over silver halide, meaning that even after bleaching I couldn't get clear highlights no matter how hard I tried.

    I never tried the tin chloride version but it may work better.

    In later experiments I tried developing a roll of colour slide film in a traditional B&W reversal process. Under conditions that gave pretty good results with Pan F Plus, the slide film totally disintegrated -- the emulsion came completely off the film base. I was as surprised as Roman is, since slide film is made to take a beating. It could be that more gentle bleaching would accomplish the bleach step without destroying the film.

    Preserving the order of Mikhail Garous' method (develop, tone, bleach) using B&W reversal bleach based on dichromate or permanganate does not work, as these bleaches also destroy the 'toned' positive. I found this out the hard way as well.

    Jordan

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