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  1. #1
    horacekenneth's Avatar
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    Fun with Sodium Metaborate?

    I've got almost a whole thing of Sodium Metaborate from trying Barry Thornton's two-bath method a couple months ago. I couldn't see any differences and I ended up ruining a whole roll so I gave up. (I've since found out I have a problematic patterson tank) Anyways, what can I do with it? Anything fun or interesting to do in a darkroom with sodium metaborate?

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    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Don't waste it, availablity is getting more difficult, although it can be made in situ in a developer from Borax and Sodium Hydroxide.

    Ian

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    Quote Originally Posted by horacekenneth View Post
    I've got almost a whole thing of Sodium Metaborate from trying Barry Thornton's two-bath method a couple months ago. I couldn't see any differences and I ended up ruining a whole roll so I gave up. (I've since found out I have a problematic patterson tank) Anyways, what can I do with it? Anything fun or interesting to do in a darkroom with sodium metaborate?
    There are two kinds of sodium metaborate. Do you know if you have 4-mol (dihydrate) or 8-mol (tetrahydrate)?
    If it's 8-mol, I'll buy some from you. I'm designing developers using sodium metaborate, and I'd like to test them with both kinds.

    Anyway, there are a number of other developers you can mix using it.

    Mark Overton

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    Make DK-50

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    horacekenneth's Avatar
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    Albada, I can't tell, it's just from the photo formulary, I'm sure you already have it.

    That slime sounds fun.

    DK-50? Tell me about it

  7. #7

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    Sodiummetaborate-tetrahydrate (x 4 H2O) and -octahydrate (x 8 H20) are in fact the same. The formula for the first is NaBO2 x 4 H2O and for the second Na2B2O4 x 8 H2O which is the double of the first. You can see a good data sheet on the website of 20 Mule Team Borax (www.borax.com). Also on the market is the dry (sicc.) version without crystal water, but "Kodalk" was the hydrate.

  8. #8
    Adrian Twiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Don't waste it, availablity is getting more difficult, although it can be made in situ in a developer from Borax and Sodium Hydroxide.

    Ian
    Don't tell me this is another chemical the Home Office have decided to restrict.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jochen View Post
    Sodiummetaborate-tetrahydrate (x 4 H2O) and -octahydrate (x 8 H20) are in fact the same. The formula for the first is NaBO2 x 4 H2O and for the second Na2B2O4 x 8 H2O which is the double of the first. You can see a good data sheet on the website of 20 Mule Team Borax (www.borax.com). Also on the market is the dry (sicc.) version without crystal water, but "Kodalk" was the hydrate.
    This is, unfortunately incorrect, and if you do the research you will find that there is NaBO2 * 2 H2O, NaBO2 * 4 H2O, Na2B2O4 * 4 H2O and Na2B2O4 * 8 H2O

    The first and the third in this list are the tetrahydrate, the second and the fourth are both the octohydrate, and tetrahydrate and octohydrate are indeed different in water content.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeofus View Post
    This is, unfortunately incorrect, and if you do the research you will find that there is NaBO2 * 2 H2O, NaBO2 * 4 H2O, Na2B2O4 * 4 H2O and Na2B2O4 * 8 H2O

    The first and the third in this list are the tetrahydrate, the second and the fourth are both the octohydrate, and tetrahydrate and octohydrate are indeed different in water content.
    Actually, these are all the same chemical, but in different relationships and with different waters of hydration. With correct adjustment based on the Sodium content, you get the same results from all of them.

    In water, at the same Sodium molar content, they form the same ions.

    PE

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