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  1. #31
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    "Fine Art" style of exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    anything made by a hassleblad looks like this



    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  2. #32
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    "Fine Art" style of exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandysloo View Post
    Thanks for your advice, everyone. I realize it is something that will take years of careful attention and patience, and while my post came off a bit eager, I was simply trying to figure out the right direction to go in order to some day arrive there. The lack of shortcuts is one thing I love about film so much.



    Everyone has been telling me to overexpose, but from what I can tell it looks washed out. For instance, in this photo I used an iPhone light meter app (I realize it's crude, but it's all I have at the moment) and set the EV compensation to 2 stops under. I then metered off the sky, which should have underexposed the image even more, if I'm not mistaken. Upon scanning it (unaltered), the image was still too bright for my tastes, and I had to drop the brightness maybe 1 stop-worth to get it looking like this: http://geometryofthought.tumblr.com/image/34321301137

    My understanding up until this point was to underexpose the negative to get dramatic contrast, then print without altering it. It seems my concept of the photographic process was wrong. So the negative is for capturing the most tonal information, with adjustments to be made in the darkroom, correct? Rather than doing everything "in camera," so to speak...



    The photographer is Hengki Koentjoro, who shoots with a Hasselblad. I have not tried to ask him; it's always the simplest and most direct solutions we seem to overlook, eh?
    A few things, one is you should meter for the subject, this being the mountain, secondly get a real light meter that has a spot meter for anything that's like a mountain as the iPhone won't capture this properly. Third is you probably chose the wrong time of day, even with color you should have chosen dawn before the sun came up and exposed for several minutes, fourth is that I don't think you had a haze filter on, and depending on the amount of moisture in the air you probably aren't seeing "over exposure" you're seeing water vapor in the air, a really good haze filter will HELP with this, not eliminate it, sometimes it's the right time of DAR or the right day that is clear and crisp and dry. Fifth is what the above poster said, before doing color start with B&W and spend a few YEARS learning and understanding light and your use if color filters etc. sixth is lean your color film you use, what film is this? For more "dramatic" looks, it's best to use the hardest film to expose of the lot which is transparency film, however that last but is personal preference, not to be held to by everyone.

    Hope that helped somewhat.


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  3. #33
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    "Fine Art" style of exposure

    DAR=Day


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post



    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    exactly

  5. #35
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    "Fine Art" style of exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    exactly
    It should be noted I own a Mamiya RZ67 and Mamiya 7 not a Hassleblad/Leica, is that why my shots end up like this instead?







    Those are all about a minute exposure...

    Sadly I can't recall what film, probably Tmax100 or tmax400 35mm in my M7 with pano adapter. It could be something else, I'm not home to look right now...


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  6. #36
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandysloo View Post
    It seems my concept of the photographic process was wrong.
    No. Incomplete maybe, but not wrong.

    Shooting slide film (or digital jpeg's like your iPhone provides) you generally get a direct correlation of exposure to output. You are creating an essentially finished, usable product, defined by the camera's exposure and a standardized process that follows. (Yes the result can be tweaked but for clarity I'll skip that here.)

    Shooting to get a specific result is actually the preferred method, you are trying to do what Ansel Adams and many others have taught. But there's more than one way to skin a cat and Ansel had control of every step in his process.

    Negatives are a different animal than slides and jpeg's, they are just an intermediate step that carries a lot more info than normally will get printed.

    To get finished output from a negative you have to "take a picture" of the negative, and to get finished output print exposure needs to be adjusted and print exposure is the variable that defines how bright or dark the print becomes. (Enlargers are nothing more than specialized cameras designed to control exposure when taking pictures of negatives. If you sent your negative film to a lab they might even use another specialized type of camera called a scanner.)

    Practical example.

    The disposable cameras that you can get at the supermarket don't have the ability to change exposure settings. Instead they use negative films and a fixed exposure setting. Some frames may receive a lot of exposure, others much less; regardless, all of those shots can be printed to normal snapshot brightness or to the dramatic brightness level you prefer.

    For negatives, there is no direct, absolute, or even normal connection between camera exposure and final output.

    The person printing makes that choice, or in a lab that choice might be made by some software.

    This second exposure choice allows us lots of flexibility but it also mandates that we make a choice, choosing once at the camera isn't enough.

    For your negatives that were printed too bright, someone or something made the choice to print them that way. All you have to do to fix that problem is tell the printer what you want and print again.

    You have to make that choice, if you simply underexpose and don't tell to processor what you want, they will try and fix your "mistake" and the result still won't be what you want.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    It should be noted I own a Mamiya RZ67 and Mamiya 7 not a Hassleblad/Leica, is that why my shots end up like this instead?







    Those are all about a minute exposure...

    Sadly I can't recall what film, probably Tmax100 or tmax400 35mm in my M7 with pano adapter. It could be something else, I'm not home to look right now...


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    well,
    you might have had some sort of hasselblad film in there without knowing it ?
    i've used lomo film in my leica, and the photographs look kind of low-fi.
    aside from that, i am not sure how you got such nice photographs out of your mamiya's,
    were you thinking about using a hasselblad, or wishing you had one ?
    i have sometimes thought of the wrong things while makingexposures ...
    like warm summer days when it was cold and wintery, or the french countryside while photographing
    in some sort of new england rust belt town / city, and when the film was processed it was
    as if it was shot on vacation somewhere else ... maybe that is what was going on ?

    whatever it is, its nice work, and goes to show that you don't need a hassleblad to make good photographs
    Last edited by jnanian; 01-01-2013 at 09:28 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #38
    aleksmiesak's Avatar
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    Dammit, I need to sell my Hasselblad right now! It's obviously not working properly
    Aleksandra Miesak

    "One should really use the camera as though tomorrow you'd be stricken blind." - Dorothea Lange

  9. #39
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    "Fine Art" style of exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    well,
    you might have had some sort of hasselblad film in there without knowing it ?
    i've used lomo film in my leica, and the photographs look kind of low-fi.
    aside from that, i am not sure how you got such nice photographs out of your mamiya's,
    were you thinking about using a hasselblad, or wishing you had one ?
    i have sometimes thought of the wrong things while makingexposures ...
    like warm summer days when it was cold and wintery, or the french countryside while photographing
    in some sort of new england rust belt town / city, and when the film was processed it was
    as if it was shot on vacation somewhere else ... maybe that is what was going on ?

    whatever it is, its nice work, and goes to show that you don't need a hassleblad to make good photographs
    It was certainly cold as windy, perhaps a Hassleblad isn't so much a camera but a way if being that is often brought out by that camera but does t require that camera.

    And honesty if you have seen enough of my posts I always comment that a Hassleblad is a foolish purchase when a Mamiya is just as good at 1/4 the price.

    Also I don't think they are great exposures by any means, just wanted to put examples up and that's all I had on hand in my phones photo library at the time.

    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  10. #40
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    "Fine Art" style of exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by aleksmiesak View Post
    Dammit, I need to sell my Hasselblad right now! It's obviously not working properly
    Haha


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

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