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  1. #301
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    I agree Thomas

    Ian

  2. #302
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    See if you can find an animated gif for that one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Q.G. View Post
    Wait!
    Shouldn't you flog (not beat) a dead horse?
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  3. #303
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    So we all agree then: water is not the best choice? :-D
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  4. #304

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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    So we all agree then: water is not the best choice? :-D
    For many things, water is surprisingly good.
    But no. You can't beat, nor flog, a dead horse with water very well.

  5. #305
    JPD
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    I use water with a dash of 24% pure vinegar for film, except when using a developer containing Sodium carbonate as alkali, to prevent bubbles in the emulsion. (Yes, I've seen it happen! Thousands and thousands of tiny bubbles destroying a 120-roll).
    J. Patric Dahlén

  6. #306
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Well, one thing to add here. Alkaline fixers can be used with stop baths, at least TF-4 can. BTDT. And, alkaline fixers do not worsen wash problems with developing agents, especially if used with a stop. HQ is rendered more soluble in alkaline fixers and thus with the increased swell, they allow for removal of HQ in the normal wash time.

    And, to quote Ansel Adams:

    "To many workers, the stop bath is merely a splash of acid in a vague amount of water. It should be compounded as directed.", "The Negative", 2nd Edition, Morgan and Morgan, New York, 1962, p81.

    Maybe that quote will convince some of you.

    PE

  7. #307
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    So we all agree then: water is not the best choice? :-D
    After 4 years of processing here in Turkey where I've no darkroom and little storage space I don't think using a water rinse has shortened the life of my fixer noticeably, but I top up replenish it anyway.

    Water may not be the optimal choice but it works well enough, I have very consistent tap water temperature (which I work to) and so giving a longer than suggested rinse is usual, my tank needs 2 litres to fill it, so the rinse is erring towards 2 minutes easily.

    Some say you shouldn't use a stop bath with a pyro dev, I use Pyrocat and do when in the UK, with no problems.

    But if they argue it's OK not to use one with a Pyro dev they can't then say it's necessary with a non Pyro dev it doesn't stack up.

    You made a good point that water usage is less with a stop bath, I'd add that I keep mine made up in the UK so just warm it and the fix alongside each other.

    It may be with some films stop bath is not the best choice, a water rinse is better as someone posted earlier, I think saying EFKE said not to use one, I've used one with EFKE films since the 70's with no problems.

    So Ilford say stop bath is preferred, but water can be used, I take that line which is not quite as strongly put as your "So we all agree then: water is not the best choice? :-D"

    Ian

  8. #308
    fotch's Avatar
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    Well, I offer a compromise. Mix your water with some stop bath.
    Items for sale or trade at www.Camera35.com

  9. #309
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    In answering Clayne I've realised why a stop bath wasn't recommended for films until the advent of 35mm and the first fine grain developers in the 20's and 40's

    It's the high carbonate levels in the Pyro developers which were used then at much higher concentrations than say PMK and Pyrocat, dev times were 2-4 minutes. The MQ developers like D72 (originally a plate developer) also contain faor amounts of Carbonate.

    So an acid stop bath causes pinholes

    Ian

  10. #310
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    We just have to keep at it a little longer!

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.



 

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