Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 76,347   Posts: 1,682,497   Online: 814
      
Page 31 of 42 FirstFirst ... 212526272829303132333435363741 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 310 of 415
  1. #301

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    5,682
    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    So we all agree then: water is not the best choice? :-D
    For many things, water is surprisingly good.
    But no. You can't beat, nor flog, a dead horse with water very well.

  2. #302
    JPD
    JPD is offline
    JPD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    817
    I use water with a dash of 24% pure vinegar for film, except when using a developer containing Sodium carbonate as alkali, to prevent bubbles in the emulsion. (Yes, I've seen it happen! Thousands and thousands of tiny bubbles destroying a 120-roll).
    J. Patric Dahlén

  3. #303
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    24,673
    Images
    65
    Well, one thing to add here. Alkaline fixers can be used with stop baths, at least TF-4 can. BTDT. And, alkaline fixers do not worsen wash problems with developing agents, especially if used with a stop. HQ is rendered more soluble in alkaline fixers and thus with the increased swell, they allow for removal of HQ in the normal wash time.

    And, to quote Ansel Adams:

    "To many workers, the stop bath is merely a splash of acid in a vague amount of water. It should be compounded as directed.", "The Negative", 2nd Edition, Morgan and Morgan, New York, 1962, p81.

    Maybe that quote will convince some of you.

    PE

  4. #304
    Ian Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    West Midlands, UK, and Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    17,017
    Images
    148
    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    So we all agree then: water is not the best choice? :-D
    After 4 years of processing here in Turkey where I've no darkroom and little storage space I don't think using a water rinse has shortened the life of my fixer noticeably, but I top up replenish it anyway.

    Water may not be the optimal choice but it works well enough, I have very consistent tap water temperature (which I work to) and so giving a longer than suggested rinse is usual, my tank needs 2 litres to fill it, so the rinse is erring towards 2 minutes easily.

    Some say you shouldn't use a stop bath with a pyro dev, I use Pyrocat and do when in the UK, with no problems.

    But if they argue it's OK not to use one with a Pyro dev they can't then say it's necessary with a non Pyro dev it doesn't stack up.

    You made a good point that water usage is less with a stop bath, I'd add that I keep mine made up in the UK so just warm it and the fix alongside each other.

    It may be with some films stop bath is not the best choice, a water rinse is better as someone posted earlier, I think saying EFKE said not to use one, I've used one with EFKE films since the 70's with no problems.

    So Ilford say stop bath is preferred, but water can be used, I take that line which is not quite as strongly put as your "So we all agree then: water is not the best choice? :-D"

    Ian

  5. #305
    fotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SE WI- USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,642
    Well, I offer a compromise. Mix your water with some stop bath.
    Items for sale or trade at www.Camera35.com

  6. #306
    Ian Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    West Midlands, UK, and Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    17,017
    Images
    148
    In answering Clayne I've realised why a stop bath wasn't recommended for films until the advent of 35mm and the first fine grain developers in the 20's and 40's

    It's the high carbonate levels in the Pyro developers which were used then at much higher concentrations than say PMK and Pyrocat, dev times were 2-4 minutes. The MQ developers like D72 (originally a plate developer) also contain faor amounts of Carbonate.

    So an acid stop bath causes pinholes

    Ian

  7. #307

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Daventry, Northamptonshire, England
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    7,690
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    "To many workers, the stop bath is merely a splash of acid in a vague amount of water. It should be compounded as directed.",
    Maybe that quote will convince some of you.

    PE
    This has prompted me to ask the following:

    1. Should we assume that the stop bath makers dilutions are correct for both paper and film or to be on the safe side should we increase the dilutions for film and if so to what?

    2. Can we assume that if the stop bath has a colour indicator for exhaustion then we can use it until that colour change occurs even if the answer to point 1 is to use a lower dilution for film?

    It's been a great discussion which I have enjoyed.

    Thanks

    pentaxuser

  8. #308

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    703
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post


    We just have to keep at it a little longer!

    Steve
    Steve,

    It is best if you just ignore this thread and let those of us who are interested in the discussion carry on from here.

    Alan

  9. #309
    jnanian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    18,307
    Blog Entries
    15
    Images
    77
    this thread is almost as entertaining as the "deleted" thread

  10. #310
    Curt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,558
    Images
    15
    Everytime I find a film or paper that I like, they discontinue it. - Paul Strand - Aperture monograph on Strand



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin