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  1. #341

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    Water stop bath?

    Using Rodinal 1:50 for Neopan, can I use water as a stopbath or will that affect the fixer.

    I usually develop 15 - 18 rolls of 120 film at a setting, so 5-6 tanks of film using the same fixer (3x120mm reel capacity Paterson tanks) and then dispose of the fixer afterwards.

  2. #342

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    Honestly, stop bath is so cheap that using one won't hurt your wallet, it's false economy not to use one. You'll need some water rinses to have the same effect, but you also need to pay attention to the temperature; large variations can be problematic. If you don't want to use an indicator stop bath, then you may use diluted distilled white vinegar. Dilute 330ml vinegar with 670ml water, making 1l. Discard after processing 20 135 or 120 films.

  3. #343
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    There's a very long recent thread on this. ALL the manufacturers INCLUDING KODAK say in their Datasheets you can use stop bath or water with films, the benefits of a stop bath are in some circumstances your fixer will last longer.

    There's no detrimental effects of using water. If you have stop bath then use it, but be careful where developers contain Carbonates

    Ian

  4. #344

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    Yes you can, and it's perfectly OK to do so. I would recommend that you have a supply of tempered water for the job though, enough to do 3 or 4 changes of water for the stop. Do not use straight cold water from the tap unless it's between a degree or two of your developer's temperature. If you're careful and wash the film thoroughly between the developer and fixer, the practice should have little effect on your fixer's life. However, I fail to understand why someone would want to avoid using a proper acid stop bath. The horror stories that go around about pinholes and such being caused by using an acid stop are simply nonsense. I have never, in all the years I've been using an acid stop bath, had it cause a single problem as long as I use it as directed. It's cheap, lasts a long time, and guarantees that development will stop on a dime, making it easier to control the development process.
    Frank Schifano

  5. #345
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    I just use 1 fill, quick agitation, and dump of water (tempered, especially with Neopan 400). It saves me trouble of making stop bath and keeping it. I don't see any advantage of stop bath so I just don't use it.
    f/22 and be there.

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    I just use 1 fill, quick agitation, and dump of water (tempered, especially with Neopan 400). It saves me trouble of making stop bath and keeping it. I don't see any advantage of stop bath so I just don't use it.
    Saves water? Faster than more than one rinse? Helps provide a small balance to the fixer?
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  7. #347
    BetterSense's Avatar
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    Saves water?
    Water is cheaper than stop bath

    Faster than more than one rinse?
    Not sure about that, if you figure on the other time saved by not having, diluting, stocking, or buying stop bath at all.

    Helps provide a small balance to the fixer?
    True, but I use 2-bath fixing, and I don't think that there's much alkalinity effect on the fixer after I rinse the film in water.
    f/22 and be there.

  8. #348

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    I use water as a stop bath myself. Saves a little time by mixing some up.

    Jeff

  9. #349
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    Guys. You mix a gallon of stop bath and keep reusing it until it's no longer yellow.

    You don't 1-shot it.
    You don't mix it each time.

    There is no way that water is more efficient.

    Edit:

    Here's some calculations:

    16oz/0.473L KISB == ~6-7 USD
    1+63 == 30L of working strength stop-bath
    1 CCF == 2800L

    In my area, 1 CCF == 2.5USD-14USD, depending on tier, so split the difference, 7USD.
    2800L per CCF, 500 ml tank == 6000 full tanks per 1 CCF, or 12000 135-36.
    30L of stop-bath, at a general capacity of 20 135-36 per L == 600 rolls, or 20 times the cost.

    So just to show I can correct myself, stop-bath is definitely more expensive than water - however time-wise I find stop to be a no brainer - and a very reliable and time-tested part of the process. Personally I don't find myself dumping 1L of stop after only 20 films, but if my numbers are accurate (they feel kinda off), it is what it is.
    Last edited by clayne; 10-08-2010 at 11:09 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  10. #350
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Water works just as well, better if you use a developer with Carbonate as it helps rule out risks of pinholes.

    I don't have a real preference for either, I've found my fixer lasts just as well with a water rinse. It needs to be remembered that manufacturers like Kodak recommend either option in their datasheet.

    People make to big an issue out of it with films, it's entirely different with prints.

    Ian



 

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